New? RH question

[Powderfinger]

If I had a air tight non-permiable container at 70 degrees temp, with a properly calibrated hygrometer inside the container reading 70% humidity, and I dropped the temp. to 50 degrees would or should the RH change? If the answer is yes, is there a temp/RH compensation chart?


Rich

[ashauler]

I think yes the rh goes down if temp goes down. I don't know of any chart.

[spiffykyle]

Yes, the RH is dependent on temperature...and pressure.

Basically, in a closed system like you are describing, with a set amount of water in the air, if the temperature drops, the RH will rise.

Do a search for Relative Humidity on wikipedia and you should find a decent explanation. However there are way to many environmental factors involved to give you a simple RH vs Temp chart, like air pressure and vapor pressure. Remember that in a sealed system, if the temperature changes and the volume doesn't, then the pressure will also change.

Why do you ask?

spiffy

[ashauler]

Yes, the RH is dependent on temperature...and pressure.

Basically, in a closed system like you are describing, with a set amount of water in the air, if the temperature drops, the RH will rise.

Do a search for Relative Humidity on wikipedia and you should find a decent explanation. However there are way to many environmental factors involved to give you a simple RH vs Temp chart, like air pressure and vapor pressure. Remember that in a sealed system, if the temperature changes and the volume doesn't, then the pressure will also change.

Why do you ask?

spiffy

Wow, was I wrong ......I thought colder air had less ability to hold moisture and therefore the rh would drop at lower temps.......hmm, off to wikipedia I go.

[Powderfinger]

The reason I ask is because I am still struggling to understand what is going on with my hygrometers. Someone suggested doing the salt test in a clear fliptop lucite airtight container. I got one of these at Walmart, and did a salt test with my new calibratable digital hygrometer. After it seemed to equalize at 68% humidity at 68 degrees temp. I always thought that the colder at container got the less humidity their would be. This I thought was why they do not recomend putting cigars in the fridge. I was wondering if the fact that being at 68 degrees temp was changing the RH reading. I will now try the Humidipak one-step calibration kit to see what that reads. I am just concerned that if it reads lets say 72% RH at 68 degrees temp, am I really getting true accuracy if I adjust the hygrometer to 75 % RH


Thanks Rich

[nhcigarfan]

I used to be hung up on RH, trying to keep it dialed in,checking it daily, etc., but it's a waste of time. I really wouldn't worry about it. Anything between 55% and 70% is fine. I like around 60%.

[Powderfinger]

I don't want to sound like a hyper-sensitive fool, but for me it makes a huge difference in taste and the way the cigar behaves as the RH changes.


Rich

[nhcigarfan]

You’re not a fool, you're correct. RH plays a huge roll in how things burn and how things burn play a roll in flavor. I like mine a little drier than 70% because they burn more the way I like them at around 60%. Also, I like spicy cigars, with natural wrappers that lend themselves to lower RH. I'm not a big maduro fan but the one's I've had seem to like a bit more RH than the cigars a usually smoke.


Either way, it's all about preference and what you like. I suggest you get some beads, I think they come in 70% and even 75%. Just be careful, at an RH above 70 and a temp above 75 to 80 degrees and you might get some beetles hatching and that would ruin your stash.

[spiffykyle]

The reason I ask is because I am still struggling to understand what is going on with my hygrometers. Someone suggested doing the salt test in a clear fliptop lucite airtight container. I got one of these at Walmart, and did a salt test with my new calibratable digital hygrometer. After it seemed to equalize at 68% humidity at 68 degrees temp. I always thought that the colder at container got the less humidity their would be. This I thought was why they do not recomend putting cigars in the fridge. I was wondering if the fact that being at 68 degrees temp was changing the RH reading. I will now try the Humidipak one-step calibration kit to see what that reads. I am just concerned that if it reads lets say 72% RH at 68 degrees temp, am I really getting true accuracy if I adjust the hygrometer to 75 % RH


Thanks Rich

You are thinking actual humidity, or absolute humidity, instead of Relative Humidity (RH). The RH basically dictates how much water can be released from and absorbed into the air. Which is why the RH adjusts with temperature. Your hygrometer reads RH and temp. In terms of how "hydrated" your cigars will get, 70% RH is the same at any temperature. So if your hygro reads 70% at 68° and 70% at 72°, then your humidification system is doing its job, and you have nothing to worry about. This is why beads are great since they can absorb extra humidity if the temp drops, and the re-release it back into the humidor when the temp comes back up.

To answer your question ahauler, your are kind of correct. The colder air doesn't need as much water to be "hydrated", which is why in a closed, sealed system, with a constant amount of water in the air, as the temp drops the RH increases. It needs less water to have the same RH as a system at a warmer temp.

spiffy

[Powderfinger]

First I want to thank you guys for responding to my questions, I really appreciate it. I just got off the phone with the guy from Heartfelt Industries, and he tells me the complete opposite. He tells me that as the temp. rises the humidity also rises, and as it lowers it drops. now I am really baffled! I have a Cigar Oasis and I am not sure that I can trust the internal hygrometer reading, and I am trying to obtain a true constant reading with my HygroSet II Digital Hygrometer to check it against it. Once I have that I can experiment with various RH levels to determine what RH is best for me. This is why I am persuing the Oasis rather than beads as I may find I like something in between the ranges offered by the beads.



Rich

[nhcigarfan]

I always thought as temp went down so did rh also. But I also gave up on trying to figuring it all out a while ago.

[heftysmokes]

But I also gave up on trying to figuring it all out a while ago.

I totally agree. I chucked the digital hygrometer about 6 months ago and rely on reading the beads and feeling the cigars. Less headache.

[spiffykyle]

OK class. Here's the somewhat technical explanation:

RH is the partial vapor pressure of the water in the air divided by the saturated vapor pressure at a given temperature. If the temperature increases so does the saturated vapor pressure, thus the RH decreases. linky

spiffy

[ashauler]

OK class. Here's the somewhat technical explanation:

RH is the partial vapor pressure of the water in the air divided by the saturated vapor pressure at a given temperature. If the temperature increases so does the saturated vapor pressure, thus the RH decreases. linky

spiffy

Too technical for me.....I read the wiki page you suggested and got a headache. I think I'll wait until I go on vacation.....then I'll stay at a Holiday Inn express and understand it perfectly the next day.

[nhcigarfan]

I think I'll keep ignoring it.

[bigwhiteash]

nice

so...... can i smoke a cigar now?

[spiffykyle]

Basically...get beads/Oasis/etc...have patience...enjoy our hobby.

spiffy

[Powderfinger]

I am gonna pull my freakin NADS off! The Hygroset II got up to 75% with the Humidipak test, and then a few minutes later I look at it and it reads 70%. Mother Fuckin Chinese Fuckin Bullshit. What does it take to get a proper peice of equipment. I spent $ 80.00 bucks on this Cigar Oasis, and as god is my wittnes, I will not rest until it, and the Mother Fuckin hygrometer reads proper. Son of ah bitch!

(just so you know non of this is directed at you guys)


Rich

[ashauler]

Damn man, don't have a coronary........its not a life and death thing where exacting precision is required. I used to worry my ass of (as in a couple of months ago), but....I finally figured out it wasn't necessary.

[ashauler]

...dbl post.