Cubans

[basil]

Ummm... No...

"Cuban Seed" tobacco means that the seeds used to start the plant were originally from Cuba. However, the seed is now planted and harvested outside of Cuba. Supposedly these seeds were taken out of the country at the time of the Cuban revolution (or sometime thereafter) by Cuban tobacco growers looking to make a better life for themselves outside of the Cuban society.

The idea that "excess Cuban tobacco" being sent to other countries and making it's way into US destined cigars is a myth. Just as the "Pre-Embargo" tobacco that's "been stored in warehouses since before the Cuban revolution and forgotten until now" stories are myths.

Nope - Cuban tobacco makes it into Cuban cigars. "Cuban seed" tobacco grown in the DR, Nicaragua, Honduras, etc. makes it into the NC cigars...

...it is a nice dream, though... Although I personally tend to like to dream about blondes on the beach...

Chris, George, and maybe others have suggested that tobacco grown from Cuban seed outside of Cuba is from seed that was taken when the country transitioned to being virtually state-run.

I'll bet not. While seeds can remain viable for decades and even centuries, after a half century the (inevitable decrease of) viability would not sustain commercial purposes (enough to annually plant a few or many acres). And, after a Cuban seed is sprouted in non-Cuban soil, seeds from the resulting plant would then be non-Cuban.

Without researching it, I'm thinking that the only way non-Cuban brands can maintain that their tobacco is from Cuban seed is to buy that Cuban seed in order to use it for each new crop.

If this is accurate, I guess it follows that the US embargo of Cuban products stops at the gene.

To answer DeeDubya, I think the illegality of the Cuban cigar is a huge draw. Especially for folks who don't really smoke cigars. As others above have said, there are good, bad, and ugly cigars from any country that produces them, including Cuba. What's kinda fucked up in my mind is that an authentic Cuban, even if it is limited edition, aged 10 years, grown at the foot of a sacred, ancient volcano, and from Fidel's personal stash, it is completely goddamn wasted on a non or very occasional smoker because this person doesn't know a decent cigar from an over-hyped piece of CAO (or what have you) shit.

Now for a cigar smoker, well, and again, this is just me speculating, the real McCoy - one of any number of brands and fucking spare me the ko-hee-bahs too, with 3-4 years on it, on the strong side of medium, a good draw, with a diet Dr. Pepper in the back yard on a Sunday afternoon (and hell yeah it would add to the experience if somewhere on the band were the words "Cuba" or "Habano") . . . Well, fuck me. That would be fucking perfect.

[ggiese]

Chris, George, and maybe others have suggested that tobacco grown from Cuban seed outside of Cuba is from seed that was taken when the country transitioned to being virtually state-run.

I'll bet not. While seeds can remain viable for decades and even centuries, after a half century the (inevitable decrease of) viability would not sustain commercial purposes (enough to annually plant a few or many acres). And, after a Cuban seed is sprouted in non-Cuban soil, seeds from the resulting plant would then be non-Cuban.

Without researching it, I'm thinking that the only way non-Cuban brands can maintain that their tobacco is from Cuban seed is to buy that Cuban seed in order to use it for each new crop.

If this is accurate, I guess it follows that the US embargo of Cuban products stops at the gene.

Oh, Ted... Linky...

[basil]

Oh, Ted... Linky...

Fascinating material - thanks for link.

This is what I thought, that presently-used seed often has a Cuban pedigree. The guy taking credit for the development of these seeds says:

"My specialty was the development and improvement of genetically superior seed strains . . ."

and:

"During my consulting career, I collected a cache of genetically pure seeds ... 47 varieties in all. These seeds are the foundation for our present crops."

- John Vogel

What is troubling about this site though is using language designed to mislead the reader into thinking that their crop seed is actually pre-embargo.

Statements like:

"These almost-forgotten pre-Castro seeds exist nowhere else in the world."

and,

"Microphotograph of two Pinar del Rio seeds, before germination ... 16,000 seeds per gram, with 97% germination." (97% is agriculture industry standard and I'll bet you a Lusitania Vogel's crop seeds are not 60 years old),

made on the web site, lead the reader to believe that these seeds are some kind of holy grail, and that authentic Cuban cigars and/or something that duplicates the Cuban taste can somehow be produced from these seeds.

What tells me Vogel is selling snake oil is that he discounts virtually all other factors - geographic, soil, curing, harvest cycle, you name it, and says that seed/genetics is all. It would be wrong-headed for anyone to say this. Vogel, as an agronomist, is telling a bald-faced lie.

While I have no reason to doubt that a lot of time and energy went into r&d, producing and developing the cigars sold on this site, the bottom line is that all this site is intended to do is sell cigars, which are Costa Rican cigars, and not Cuban, regardless of where the seed stock came from 6 decades ago.

caveat emptor

[nhcigarfan]

Anyone ever tried one of these high priced sticks?

[bigwhiteash]

I would imagine, (not stating a fact), that an actual CIGAR, gets very little of its taste from the SEED! Sure, seeds will pass on genetic traits like hardiness, plant size, etc.. but we all know that even tobacco grown in the same soil, from the same harvest, can taste dramatically different, depending on how it's cured, fermented, aged, and even rolled!

My thoughts, anyway

[ggiese]

I think what is fascinating about that link is the encapsulated discussion around the Cuban cigar industry, post Castro. The post-Castro Cuban government nearly destroyed the Cuban cigar business - but later recognized their mistake and have been trying to re-establish the industry dominance they once had.

Those that have sampled Cuban cigars know the good and bad. Plugged cigars - "sick" period (due to lack of full aging), etc. Cuba has a history of issues with quality of their cigars, no doubt. And in that void (largely due to the mass exodus of master blenders and rollers) the NC market has made significant strides.

"Piloto Cubano", "Cuban Seed", etc. is a means of marketing cigars that one would fondly associate with Cuban cigars. While the specific strain of tobacco plant plays into the overall quality of the end product - one thing is certain. That same plant, regardless of its origin or strain - planted in different regions (including different areas within Cuba) - has a characteristically different flavor due to the soil and growing conditions. While "Cuban Seed" plants are good - where they are grown is equally (if not more) important. Much like wine making grapes.

There is little doubt - Cuban tobacco has a flavor profile that is all it's own. Certainly inexperienced Cuban cigars smokers are drawn by the mystique of sampling the "forbidden fruit" - but many continue to seek them out because of the flavor (that is - as long as the first Cubans they smoked were not counterfeit ).

Personally - there are a number of NC cigars I enjoy much better than most Cuban cigars. And I've been stunned by some Cuban cigars other seem to dismiss (i.e. - not the usual fare of Montecristo #2's, Koh-Hee-Bah's, Partagas or RyJ). Unlike others, though - I do not waste my time smoking cigars for the simple necessity of wanting to smoke SOMETHING. Just as I do not drink Boone's Farm wine because I want to drink...

Bottom line - smoke what you enjoy - enjoy what you smoke.

And try as you might to believe otherwise - only small amounts of Cuban tobacco makes it out of the country for export elsewhere. Think about it - Cuba is having a heck of a time keeping up with demand for their finished cigars - It's completely unimaginable it's more lucrative for them to export the unrolled tobacco... The Cuban tobacco industry has always used the best tobacco for its own finished products - leaving literally an export of scrap and waste.

[basil]

I think what is fascinating about that link is the encapsulated discussion around the Cuban cigar industry, post Castro. The post-Castro Cuban government nearly destroyed the Cuban cigar business - but later recognized their mistake and have been trying to re-establish the industry dominance they once had.

Yeah - pretty amazing that he would pretty much torpedo one of the more important industries in his country.

[cigar no baka]

I avoid anything that is "Cuban seed" for the most part. I have smoked the Camacho Libertys the last few years, and while they were excellent cigars, I doubt it anything to do with pre-embargo tobacco, if it truly contains pre-embargo tobacco.

The 2004, 2005 and 2006 were great. But not the 2007. Maybe they ran out of that pre-embargo tobacco eh?