OK, enough bullshit.

[Newfie]

Bill, you baited me once before with incorrect statements, false accusations and a general shit-slinging series of posts.

It isn't happening again.

I posted a response to alot of the comments in this thread, and even complimented you.

Enough's enough. Have fun playing in your sand box pal.

[cigar no baka]

Bill, you baited me once before with incorrect statements, false accusations and a general shit-slinging series of posts.

It isn't happening again.

I posted a response to alot of the comments in this thread, and even complimented you.

Enough's enough. Have fun playing in your sand box pal.

You weren't here when the Barry fiasco started, and then Sid started defending him, and started a shitstorm doing so?

i don't think you understand what happened, but you kind of imply that you do. I would be careful about making generalized statements about things that happened before you got here.

[Newfie]

You weren't here when the Barry fiasco started, and then Sid started defending him, and started a shitstorm doing so?

i don't think you understand what happened, but you kind of imply that you do. I would be careful about making generalized statements about things that happened before you got here.

Baka, I joined here (if I remember correctly) right about the time Barry did. I do remember Sid defending him (and the surrounding feud), but for the most part, didn't read much on it and fairly much stayed away from it. If I also remember correctly, they were friends somehow before Barry joined the board, and that Sid invited him.

While I don't pretend to know all the issues concerning some of the "personality clashes", I do believe that many are fueled by differences in political views, and I'm sure you'll agree that much of the shit-slinging has been a result of political posts and taunting. If I indicated in any of my posts that I know exactly all the issues around said feuds, I apologize to anyone offended and retract that (those) statements.

[ggiese]

Newfie - I think baka hit the nail on the head.

Most of the "players" in this latest dust up have not been here to understand the context of the argument. Kinda like walking into a husband and wife screaming at each other and saying it's a bunch of noise and not in the least bit useful. Sure - at the moment is stinks - but it should (theoretically) lead to resolution (one way or the other). Hard for someone to judge who's right or wrong because there is no context - you have no history behind the current dispute. Siding with one or the other is really not the appropriate thing to do. Believe me - I've been there and done that. One of the most dangerous things you can do is to step in the middle of that...

Most of the current people upset by these events were not here when CC came to this board. Many were not here in previous disputes. Quite a few were not here for the genesis of the current dispute. Personal relationships between "disputees" and some of the people expressing frustrations with the current malaise did develop AFTER the dispute started - which would logically color (or colour, for you Canadians in the audience) your judgment. Honestly think about it - it really may not be in your means to understand what's going on. So, logically, opinions that you express will most likely ruffle one side or the other.


BTW - despite your best efforts to deny it - this is about as close as you can get to a full blown democracy. With all the craziness usually associated with being able to say pretty much what you want. There are limits - as in yelling "fire" in a crowded theater. What CC is saying is challenging, no doubt - but it does not rise to the level of "fire". Learn to accept there are differing viewpoints, and learn to argue with a mind that is not clouded by personal feelings.

In other words - develop a thick skin...

[Newfie]

Hiya George.

No doubt this will come to a resolution one way or another. Unfortunately, it may mean people leaving unnecessarily, that's what I hate about the situation.

Someone please tell me if I'm 100% right, totally out to lunch, or somewhere in the middle when I say I believe much if this is fueled by political beliefs!! Like I said before, I don't really give a damn if you, or Sid, or Bill, or Barry, or whoever thinks the Republicans are better than the Democrats , or vice versa. I just don't think it should evolve to bad friendships here.

No, I don't have any history behind the current dispute, I'm just looking at the possible results. I don't believe I'm taking sides, either.

I like to think I have a thick skin and can stand up to quote a bit of crap, I just hate what's going on here. There was a thread quite a while ago about a "Home Board". I like this place (and the freedom allowed) and like the vast majority of the people.

This discussion, like many others, can have no settlement. Some people will always agree to disagree.

Agreed??

[ggiese]

Hiya George.

No doubt this will come to a resolution one way or another. Unfortunately, it may mean people leaving unnecessarily, that's what I hate about the situation.

Someone please tell me if I'm 100% right, totally out to lunch, or somewhere in the middle when I say I believe much if this is fueled by political beliefs!! Like I said before, I don't really give a damn if you, or Sid, or Bill, or Barry, or whoever thinks the Republicans are better than the Democrats , or vice versa. I just don't think it should evolve to bad friendships here.

No, I don't have any history behind the current dispute, I'm just looking at the possible results. I don't believe I'm taking sides, either.

I like to think I have a thick skin and can stand up to quote a bit of crap, I just hate what's going on here. There was a thread quite a while ago about a "Home Board". I like this place (and the freedom allowed) and like the vast majority of the people.

This discussion, like many others, can have no settlement. Some people will always agree to disagree.

Agreed??

Honestly - the political discussion was getting out of hand. While I appreciate differing views and am not overly sensitive (I can take it as well as I dish it out) - there comes a "line" (as you say) of decency. You may be disturbed about CC's diatribe - but it doesn't even come close to some of the hateful, obnoxious, disrespectful, crude, vulgar and otherwise hurtful nonsense that was being posted in those earlier "political" discussions. Some of which (as you point out in the current scenario) led to good members packing it up and moving on, while others seriously assessed their continued presence on this board. Good people left because of the nonsense....

So - was it the purpose of the individual who was the nexus of the "discussions" to provide a glimpse into their political views? Or was it really intended to draw out individuals with opposing views to engage them in a head to head battle. I dunno..

I think at least a portion of the current discussions seems to be about whether or not there was a "conspiracy" - and how deep that "conspiracy" was. There is some pretty compelling evidence to support the view that at least one person was engaged in behavior that was suggestive of him trying to "control" the board, or "control" engagements. There is also some pretty compelling evidence that there was a calculated orchestration for certain events and individuals that are not participatory on our board came over here to influence the events.

You can draw your own conclusions based upon the adequate evidence that's available, if you care to look at it. It will definitely take some reading to get the full flavor of the conflict...

Remember, though - half the story is not the WHOLE story no matter how you try to paint it. Being there is more important than reading about it. For example, you no longer have the opportunity to test ideas and assumptions concurrent with the discussions in live time.

Boy it sure would be swell to get past all of this and move on to discussing cigars. And Utopia is a great place to be!!! In reality, though, I think we are never going to be away from disputes on our board - and we about about as close as we may come to living in Utopia.

[Newfie]

Thanks George.

Just for my own interest, I'll sit this weekend with a smoke and a coffee or three and spend some time searching and reading. And I'll do it with an open mind!!

I'll also keep this part in mind too, it's pretty important IMHO:

Remember, though - half the story is not the WHOLE story no matter how you try to paint it. Being there is more important than reading about it. For example, you no longer have the opportunity to test ideas and assumptions concurrent with the discussions in live time.

[ggiese]

Thanks George.

Just for my own interest, I'll sit this weekend with a smoke and a coffee or three and spend some time searching and reading. And I'll do it with an open mind!!

I'll also keep this part in mind too, it's pretty important IMHO:

Good luck to you!

Also - one of the other things you will not have the advantage of evaluating is the subtle ploys and timing of the ploys that were going on at the time. i.e. - sigtags, member titles and avatar photos.

My member title is a remanant of those days - you'd have to have been here at that time to understand why and by what context it is significant. Basically, though, it has to do with an individual putting "CS - a bad place for Dems" in their member title after a certain sequence of significant events took place. Subtly (as subtle as an elephant can be) he was telling the community he believed the whole issue at the time had to do with the poop hitting the fan over political affiliations, when in reality it had more to do with his (and his friends) manners.

[ggiese]

The other thing that I'm seeing a fair amount of is this idea that we should all get along. Sure - that's a wonderful mantra, but sometimes that's like telling a 900 pound woman she needs to squeeze into a size 3 for a wedding. As hard as you may try to make it fit - you know it's not going to happen - and it is not very pretty when it's attempted. So why even suggest it???

It also seems like people on this board are somtimes drawn to the controversy like a moth to the flame. The discussion is going on between two or so people - both making valid points. Then you have some goofball stick his/her nose into the mess with this "take this somewhere else" crap. How the hell do you then get all butt-hurt because they're told to STFU? Especially someone who has no history, doesn't understand the dynamics, hasn't researched the issue, etc. I'm sorry - ya can't blame the fire for you burning your hand...

[CoventryCat86]

Hiya George.

No doubt this will come to a resolution one way or another. Unfortunately, it may mean people leaving unnecessarily, that's what I hate about the situation.

Someone please tell me if I'm 100% right, totally out to lunch, or somewhere in the middle when I say I believe much if this is fueled by political beliefs!!

You are totally out to lunch, none of "this is fueled by political beliefs." While I can't speak for sid, I'd venture a cigar bet that he agrees with me on this.

As far as people "leaving unnecessarily" when are people like you going to ever get it through your thick heads that people come and go from forums like this for MANY reasons with dusts up ranking as a very small percentage in the whole scheme of things.

[cinda]

I think this has been discussed in circles and in order to move forward it would help to have a goal. My question to you is....What would end this for you CC? What would have to happen to put this puppy to bed?

I say this to you with all due respect please make the goal realistic.

[CoventryCat86]

I think this has been discussed in circles and in order to move forward it would help to have a goal. My question to you is....What would end this for you CC? What would have to happen to put this puppy to bed?

I say this to you with all due respect please make the goal realistic.

"end" what and what is "this puppy?" Why are you singling me out specifically?

It's not just me cinda because if I were to say "everything's cool with me" there are a WHOLE lot of other people out there who are extremely unhappy with sid so while your quest for a simple "end" is a noble one, it's an unrealistic one.

Even if I were to say "I'm leaving, and I will never post here ever again." do you think that would "end" anything or put some "puppy to bed?" I highly doubt it.

[ggiese]

I think this has been discussed in circles and in order to move forward it would help to have a goal. My question to you is....What would end this for you CC? What would have to happen to put this puppy to bed?

I say this to you with all due respect please make the goal realistic.

You're right - this has been discussed way more than it should have been. I have to be honest - I have a headache.

We have a number of people that are reading a particular post or series of posts and interpreting the entire episode based upon what they just read. It has no context - it has no overall relevance - it is just a snipit a much larger issue. Kinda like watching a small segment of The Notebook, seeing a comedic element and calling the whole movie a comedy.

Some in this community are trying to understand where people are coming from with their thoughts about recent events. To be honest, they should be reading all of the history of this issue and then interjecting their feelings - not asking for the Reader's Digest condensed version. I know it's Kinda tough to do that - it is spread out all over the board in various threads and there is no guide that could possibly navigate someone through all of the mess (Newfie says he's going to try this weekend - maybe when he's all done he can put something together for us - IF he reads ALL of it.).

What's it going to take Bill to stop? Please Bill - I'm not taking words out of your mouth but I think I understand what your thoughts are on this. It really is quite simple

1. Quite defending sid (or anyone else that deserves an ass smacking because of their behavior).
2. sid (and anyone else that is acting like and ass deserved of a good ass smacking) must publically apologize and make ammends for his/her behavior.
3. Don't make a post that is not accurate, and then expect the community to ignore it. If you're going to say it, defend it. If you can't defend it, don't say it. If you don't know HOW to defend it, don't involve yourself in the controversial threads!
4. Quit shooting the messenger for the message.

Honestly - I think the message is out there. It is what it is. Some may disagree that sid did some pretty stupid, self-centered, egotistical, arrogant, obnoxious things - and did it in a way that was freakin' sneaky. But it is what it is - and a very significant portion of the senior membership here believe sid screwed up (even though quite a few really like the guy) and should apologize for his behavior...

It goes back to what I said earlier in this thread - and I'm frustrated that some have chosen to ignore it. It took me a while to piece that post together...

The other thing that I'm seeing a fair amount of is this idea that we should all get along. Sure - that's a wonderful mantra, but sometimes that's like telling a 900 pound woman she needs to squeeze into a size 3 for a wedding. As hard as you may try to make it fit - you know it's not going to happen - and it is not very pretty when it's attempted. So why even suggest it???

It also seems like people on this board are somtimes drawn to the controversy like a moth to the flame. The discussion is going on between two or so people - both making valid points. Then you have some goofball stick his/her nose into the mess with this "take this somewhere else" crap. How the hell do you then get all butt-hurt because they're told to STFU? Especially someone who has no history, doesn't understand the dynamics, hasn't researched the issue, etc. I'm sorry - ya can't blame the fire for you burning your hand...

You want to put this puppy to bed? Read my above quoted previous post and See points 1, 2, 3 and 4...



Now if you don't mind - I'm going to go back to being a smartass. Those of you who want to argue like a bunch of sixth grade girls fighting over the cutest boy in class - keep it up. Gloves are off - you're going to get your asses smacked!!!

[CoventryCat86]

Bill, you baited me once before with incorrect statements, false accusations and a general shit-slinging series of posts.

It isn't happening again.

I posted a response to alot of the comments in this thread, and even complimented you.

Enough's enough. Have fun playing in your sand box pal.

Stop lying.

I did not "bait" you nor did I "twist your words." I asked you a simple question, you refused to answer and now you're melting down.

By the way, there is no such word as "alot."

[Newfie]

snip.....By the way, there is no such word as "alot."

Bwaaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaa haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa, he's BAAAAAAAACK

[CoventryCat86]

Here was my question:

So Newfie according to your logic, it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it, correct?

I did not "put words in your mouth" that's an incorrect statement from you which is synonomous with a lie.

Once again, the question is simple and it would be nice if you'd either say "Yes, that's okay in my book." or "No, you are wrong, I don't believe it's okay for people to "fuck up" and never apologize for it. I think they should man up and accept that they were wrong."

But instead you start whining and "slinging shit" as you falsely accused me of.

[Newfie]

Here was my question:

I did not "put words in your mouth" that's an incorrect statement from you which is synonomous with a lie.

Once again, the question is simple and it would be nice if you'd either say "Yes, that's okay in my book." or "No, you are wrong, I don't believe it's okay for people to "fuck up" and never apologize for it. I think they should man up and accept that they were wrong."

But instead you start whining and "slinging shit" as you falsely accused me of.

OK Bill, I thought I already answered your question, but here goes again:

SNIP...Kevin:

Yeah, if you fuck up, sure, let’s go dude, and I don’t believe anyone would have an issue with that. Wasn't my intention to imply that Pal.
....SNIP....
Bill ……………… Bill ………..:

So we’re on opposite sides of the fence, but we both agree with Kevin??? I’m not talking about the one-time run-in-start-shit-run-out crap that everyone (almost) here will jump on. If you think that’s what’s getting my goat, then you should read my post again. ....SNIP

So, if you're interested and if you can find it, please tell me where I said:

snip....it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it, correct?....snip

[CoventryCat86]

OK Bill, I thought I already answered your question, but here goes again:



So, if you're interested and if you can find it, please tell me where I said:

I NEVER said you "said" anything and now you're "snipping" my post to make it look like something it's not.

Once again, trying to have a reasonable dialog with you is virtually impossible without you acting like as ass so I'll try one more time. Here is my question to you, it's a QUESTION newfie, NOT me "putting words in your mouth" or saying that you "said" something. One more time, this is a QUESTION and it would be nice if you'd answer it:

So Newfie according to your logic, it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it, correct?

Based on your first post here, I drew what I thought was a reasonable conclusion regarding your logic which was that you seem to think it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it.

If I'm wrong, please explain to me why I'm wrong.

[Newfie]

snip...So Newfie according to your logic, it's okay for people to " up" and never apologize for it, correct?....snip

NO!!!!

Is that clear enough for you to understand?? Is that proper for you?? Is the spelling correct??

I have read, re-read, and studied my original post again and I still get the same meaning I intended in the first place, and there is no way I can interpret or read into it what you did, and i furthermore and once again invite you to explain how you arrived at that theory. Until that time, in my honest opinion, there's nothing more you have to say to me.

MIGUEL:

You have my sincerest apologies for even starting this thread and muddying the database of the Board with the shit contained with-in. If I could delete the thread, I would as I had no idea someone would so grossly misinterpret my words!!.

[ggiese]

MIGUEL:

You have my sincerest apologies for even starting this thread and muddying the database of the Board with the shit contained with-in. If I could delete the thread, I would as I had no idea someone would so grossly misinterpret my words!!.

I'm highly offended, newfie. Very selfish - now that you've heard the explanations and want the discussion cleared out. I was honestly and sincerely trying to answer your questions and you want to wipe that all out? You make it feel like you didn't want to hear what I had to say - you already had your mind made up and it didn't matter.

However, rhere's some very good points that have been made in this thread and it is good for everyone to understand thoughts behind the posts. To erase this thread sure would be a shame. We could point to this thread when some newbie comes in and tries to understand why someone is being beat up! It's not like we've never had this discussion before!

My take? Maybe we need more of these kinds of threads to better understand one another and maybe it will reduce future confrontations.