Where on the political spectrum do you lie? (Mods: Please don't move!)

[reaganyouth84]

Why? This is the politics forum, and I thought it was no holds barred here.

Well, thats true too, it's just getting really crazy. Pretty soon she will say we need to sell aborted baby parts to improve the economy!
-Mike

[cigarsarge]

There are some arguments that are generally best avoided to maintain civility... Like abortion. But does it really matter, I guess not.

I can be civil to people I disagree with. I totally respect Amanda's right to express her opinion. I hope she respects mine.

The right to debate issues in a civil manner is one of the reasons our country is the greatest on earth.

[Iced T]

I can be civil to people I disagree with.

Well, we are smokers of fine tobaccos.

[reaganyouth84]

I know here in Knoxville we have a pro-life center across from the abortion clinic. The pro-life center is a 100% volunteer orginization that provides clothing for the babies, medical attention for the mother and offspring, as well as financial help. Everything runs on 100% donations made by concerned citizens, as well as a few tax breaks here and there. I've been there twice, once to do some research, and the other, well we won't talk about that, but I'll say that I am not a father. This is why I am so opinionated on this subject, I've been down that road ya know. Anyways, they do some really really good work there. I think the name of it is The Hope Resource Center. You might be able to find some stuff about it on the web.
-Mike

[reaganyouth84]

My previous post sounds a little weird. The reason I went there the 2nd time was because I went with a friend of mine who had a dead beat boyfriend. She thought she was pregnate, but she was ok. They gave her and std test, and a pregnancy test and it didn't cost her a single penny! Like I said, they do some really good work. Just wanted to clear up any confusion.
-Mike

[Rbraczyk]

oh yea for the record.

George W Bush is by far, the worst president this country has ever seen.

[Iced T]

Of course.

[cigarsarge]

oh yea for the record.

George W Bush is by far, the worst president this country has ever seen.

CARE TO ELABORATE

[Iced T]

Uh oh...

[cigar no baka]

oh yea for the record.

George W Bush is by far, the worst president this country has ever seen.

HORSESHIT, BILL CLINTON WAS THE WORST EXAMPLE OF A PRESIDENT WE HAVE SEEN IN MODERN TIMES. A LIAR A CHEATER AND AN OPPORTUNISTIC BASTARD TO BOOT!!!

[reaganyouth84]

HORSESHIT, BILL CLINTON WAS THE WORST EXAMPLE OF A PRESIDENT WE HAVE SEEN IN MODERN TIMES. A LIAR A CHEATER AND AN OPPORTUNISTIC BASTARD TO BOOT!!!

[AND A GIGANTIC DOUCHE BAG TO TOP IT ALL OFF but he did like his cigars

[Amanda]

I still have not heard a reasonable analysis of how a new prohibition will be imposed on abortion without substantially increasing the tax burden. I would not even raise this as an issue if the same group of people clamoring for the prohibition wasn't also complaining day in and day out about being overtaxed. I also made abundantly clear in my first post on this topic that I am opposed to abortion. I'm also opposed to gambling, but I stop short of calling for its criminalization because prohibitions DON'T WORK. You can't legislate supply-and-demand laws out of existence. After 100 years of failure in regards to prohibitions, the series of events that would follow the criminalization of abortion is almost a cliche. Abortions would continue to be sought after by the same women and girls who seek it today....violations of the anti-abortion laws would occur daily in back alleys and basements....lawmakers vow to "crack down" on violators and issue harsh new mandatory sentences for offenders, which only makes the services of those who continue to perform the abortions more valuable and thus lures in thousands more people willing to take the gamble and perform the service....and before you know it, there is an entire criminal industry of black-market abortion providers financed and protected by organized crime...while the prison population swells with hundreds of thousands of back-alley abortionists. How many times does prohibitionary policy have to fail before we realize its futility?

Of course none of this is likely to matter since the prospects of Roe v. Wade ever being overturned are incredibly slim. The Republican Party has seized control of every branch of government largely by dangling the abortion carrot in front of working-class "values voters" in Middle America who would otherwise have precious few reasons to align themselves with the political party their bosses contribute to. With this in mind, I doubt that most of the Republicans' Machiavellian operatives have any interest in seeing the issue go away, even if the rank and file wants it outlawed.

[grand cru no 2]

"Birth rates are highest in parts of the country where abstinence is sold as the only real solution to pregnancy prevention, and where birth control is viewed as quasi-abortion."

Well, personally, I have never seen someone abstaining from sex get pregnate, but that's just me.

I mean you've laid out the ground work though, made very good points. It's obvious that abortion is the only solution. We can teach kids a great life lesson, "do whatever you want, there are no consequences!" You know, I think right now I'll go give my 12 year old sister a bag of contraseptives and tell her to go like a rabbit. After all, you can't control your urges, it's just a myth that you can control yourself. Besides, society is to blame.



-Mike

I am a very strong believer in ACCOUNTABILITY, but the plain and simple truth is there are lots of people in the world without it. While I am pro-life, I don't think abortion should be illegal. It seems to me that those with accountability and personal responsability will "do what's right" and choose not to abort but rather put the child up for adoption.

I'm not one for "letting people off the hook" but people do make mistakes and sometimes it is best if they can "fix" them. How they choose to do that is something that depends on their ethical stances. Our government should not intrude into extremely personal aspects of life.

I know that some of the other republicans on this site may go after me for this, but like Ken, I also can talk politics in a civil way, not to mention I'm not as touchy as some of the people around here.

[Iced T]

Quick abortion story. A while back I had a conversation with a very intelligent Republican. We were crewing the same boat in Mexico and when we inevitably found out that each other was a Republican, we had some good talks. Anyways, he had a big problem with abortion (being started with the actual program the Nazi's used, by Margaret Sanger [This is from Wikipedia - "Margaret's original intention in founding Planned Parenthood was to "limit" the population of African Americans in New York City".). Being an African-American, he didn't like a lot about how the "abortion system" is run. Well, by the end of the conversation we both were at an all-new realization. That conservatives generally would not choose to have an abortion, but liberals generally would. We both looked at each other and decided to be pro-abortion because if all the liberals get them, there'd be none left! Evolution baby!

[8-5-8]

We both looked at each other and decided to be pro-abortion because if all the liberals get them, there'd be none left! Evolution baby!

How delightfully third-reich-ish... and we wonder why republicans get such a bad rap...

[Amanda]

Iced T, perhaps the same could be said about NASCAR with conservatives. If these Republicans insist on driving around a racetrack at 200 miles per hour multiple times per week, their chances of winning elections will diminish with each passing election cycle.

[Kenyth]

I am middle of the road with tendancies to the right. That's not to say I don't like to take a side. It's just to say that I don't agree with either side even close to %100 most of the time.

Because political parties need financial support, they must support certain issues all the way to get the support they need.

IMHO, the right wing, left to their own devices, would eventually completely screw the working class. Mind you this would take a long time, but it would happen. The right wing beleives that everyone should earn any benefit they have in life, no matter how difficult it is to gain at the time. They also tend to be unconcerned with environmental issues. They are generally pro-big business, anti-union, capatalists, and opportunistic. In proper measure, these are good traits for economic success.

IMHO, the left wing, left to their own devices, would eventually drive the government to socialism. We would lose many of the precious rights we take for granted. We would have government involved in all facets of our lives. We would be taxed mercilessly, and would find it much harder to become upper class or wealthy. Excessive social programs and environmental protection measures would bleed the economy like a huge parasite. The economy would likely stagnate as a result.



It would be nice if this was the cut and dry case and everyone fell well on either side of the line, but it's not that simple. Many Democrats, for instance, seem to have markedly right wing attitudes when it comes to certain economic decisions. Likely, because nearly all high level politicians are wealthy and have at least some level of self-interest. The only thing to do is research each politicians history and stance on your concerns to the best of your ability. Likely, switching between Democrats and Republicans being in power is the best way to stay in balance. Considering there are realistically only two candidates to choose from in higher level offices, you may often find yourself faced with choosing between Tweedledum and Tweedledee. Sad, but it's the way of things.

[reaganyouth84]

Quick abortion story. A while back I had a conversation with a very intelligent Republican. We were crewing the same boat in Mexico and when we inevitably found out that each other was a Republican, we had some good talks. Anyways, he had a big problem with abortion (being started with the actual program the Nazi's used, by Margaret Sanger [This is from Wikipedia - "Margaret's original intention in founding Planned Parenthood was to "limit" the population of African Americans in New York City".). Being an African-American, he didn't like a lot about how the "abortion system" is run. Well, by the end of the conversation we both were at an all-new realization. That conservatives generally would not choose to have an abortion, but liberals generally would. We both looked at each other and decided to be pro-abortion because if all the liberals get them, there'd be none left! Evolution baby!

I have had that same thought for a number of years. I think it's a great idea, hahaha. No wonder Democrats can't win elections, their own legislation kills their future generation of voters, ha! So with that in mind, if the liberals want abortion, then I say go knock yourself out!

Just had another thought, maybe abortion is partly to blame for the social security problem. Think about it, we are now at a point where there aren't enough people as there were previously (1970's and earlier) to support the retired workers. So maybe all these babies people have been aborting through the years would be old enough to be in the work place, paying social security. Maybe this has come back to bite us on the ass with the social security crisis. Just a thought.
-Mike

[Kenyth]

You can't keep inflating the population to keep up with expenses. You're just billing the problem forward. Eventually, growth has to stop or reverse itself, then you bear the full brunt of the problem!

[Iced T]

Iced T, perhaps the same could be said about NASCAR with conservatives. If these Republicans insist on driving around a racetrack at 200 miles per hour multiple times per week, their chances of winning elections will diminish with each passing election cycle.

YEEEEEEEHHHAAAAWWWWW!!

There's lots less people dying in NASCAR than abortions...