New here-Cuban ?'s

[badwhale]

How do you know Craftsman sockets suck, and break all the time if you've replaced them?

I'll give you the screwdriver example.

[badwhale]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-1...&blockType=L10

149.95/38.99 = 3.8 times more expensive. Ok, not quite 5-6 times as expensive, but the tool box example exceeds the 5-6 times more expensive.

Also, I tried to keep the ratchet example "apples to apples" meaning polished chrome. If you just went with the plain forged teardrop craftstman: http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-1...8&blockType=L8

then you're at 149.95/22.99 = 6.5 times more expensive.

ETA:

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

http://www.craftsman.com/craftsman-1...1&blockType=L1

423.00/29.99 = 14.1 times more expensive. Yes, yes, before your wisely point it out, the Snappy set has 2, count 'em 2 MORE SOCKETS!!!

[ggiese]

I'm trying really hard to compare the Craftsman to the Snap On tools - but I can't get them to be apples to apples...

For starters - Craftsman sure is thin on details. Snap On sure does have quite a bit more information about their tools...

Craftsman 1/2 in. Socket Wrench

Product Overview:
Item Weight (lbs.): 1.4 lbs.
General Features:
Drive Size: 1/2 in.
Drive Tool Length: 10-3/8 in.
Drive Tool Type: Ratchet
Socket Type: Quick release
Others:
Drive Size: 1/2 in.
Ratchet Style: Polished

Snap On 1/2 in. Socket Wrench

Snap On Socket Wrench
Name Ratchet, Quick Release, 1/2" drive
Price** $149.95
Brand Snap-on
Country Of Origin USA
Dimension A, Head Depth, inches 3/4
Dimension B, Head Width, inches 1 5/8
ASME/ANSI B107.10
Dimension C, Length, inches 10 5/16
Finish Chrome
Gear Action 4.5°
Gear Teeth 80
Handle Standard
Head Type Quick Release
Ratchet Service Kit RKRSR80A
Square Drive, inches 1/2

Description:
•80 tooth gear for 4.5 degree of swing arc
•7 teeth in contact with the gear at all times to provide maximum strength and durability
•Quick release has a positive locking feature to hold socket securely in place when needed and push button for easy removal
•Sealed head keeps dirt and contamination out and lubricants in

I know that 80 gear teeth is better (makes is easier to take shorter strokes - "4.5 degree of swing arc") which costs more to manufacture (tighter tolerances). "7 teeth in contact with the gear at all times to provide maximum strength and durablility". I don't see what's in Craftsman, and not sure why they did not publish that information in their catalog...

But - your second Craftsman example is more telling...

10-3/8 in. long standard teardrop 1/2 in. drive ratchet. One-hand reversing lever. 36 gear teeth equates to 10 deg. ratcheting arc. Shape allows better access in tight spots. Weight 1.5 lbs.

Not apples to apples - definitely!

This does pair with my experience between Snap On and Craftsman. Craftsman is "ok" (definitely better than WalMart), but is definitely not the same quality as Snap On. If I were a professional mechanic, I would definitely use a Snap On over a Craftsman. I do like the way their tools "feel" and (more importantly) how they work compared to the Craftsman. To me - apples and oranges difference - and clearly not "pennies" (or even "quarters") difference to manufacture...

[badwhale]

I'm trying really hard to compare the Craftsman to the Snap On tools - but I can't get them to be apples to apples...

For starters - Craftsman sure is thin on details. Snap On sure does have quite a bit more information about their tools...

Craftsman 1/2 in. Socket Wrench



Snap On 1/2 in. Socket Wrench


I know that 80 gear teeth is better (makes is easier to take shorter strokes - "4.5 degree of swing arc") which costs more to manufacture (tighter tolerances). "7 teeth in contact with the gear at all times to provide maximum strength and durablility". I don't see what's in Craftsman, and not sure why they did not publish that information in their catalog...

Here we go...

[ggiese]

Here we go...

It's hard to argue when you don't understand the differences...

You're an engineer - you would know. If you took apart a Snap On tool and compared the "guts" to a Craftsman - do you really believe it to be apples to apples?

Before you answer that question - I'd highly recommend you do your "research"...


You're ignorance is truly shocking to me. The idea you'd argue that ignorance is even more shocking.

[badwhale]

..and Will - I would suggest it might be foolish to argue with Bill about mechanics tools. Far more than a "weekend mechanic", Bill does do quite a bit of work on cars - and intimately knows the differences between the quality of tool manufacturers. He's one of those individuals I have called on when I've had a question about what the best tool would be to do the job - knowing that he would be in a position to best know...

That's good to know. I'm sure he's the only one out there that works on cars, or anything...

The only thing "foolish" about arguing with Bill is that he loves to argue.

It's hard to argue when you don't understand the differences...

You're an engineer - you would know. If you took apart a Snap On tool and compared the "guts" to a Craftsman - do you really believe it to be apples to apples?

Before you answer that question - I'd highly recommend you do your "research"...


You're ignorance is truly shocking to me. The idea you'd argue that ignorance is even more shocking.

Never said they were "apples to apples" just that they weren't 5+ apples, or in the case of sockets 14+ apples.

Your ignorance is shocking to me, especially when you obviously don't know my background or experience on the subject.

[Devil Doc]

My youngest son is a professional "mechanic", although I wouldn't call him that if I were you. He uses both. Snap On for the tools he uses most; Craftsman for the jobs he does least. From what he tells me, there's no sense spending money on Snap On for jobs you might do once a year or less

Doc

[ggiese]

That's good to know. I'm sure he's the only one out there that works on cars, or anything...

The only thing "foolish" about arguing with Bill is that he loves to argue.



Never said they were "apples to apples" just that they weren't 5+ apples, or in the case of sockets 14+ apples.

Your ignorance is shocking to me, especially when you obviously don't know my background or experience on the subject.

Congratulations, Will - you've won the argument! Our community should know the truth! I concede to you and Craig's (and ultimately Lew Rothman's) incredibly insightful knowledge and understanding of the costs of cigar manufacturing.

I admit - I was very ignorant to think otherwise. In that - I believe it would be appropriate for me to take a vacation for a while to reflect on my incredibly foolish belief that it would be any other way.

[ggiese]

..and Will - I would suggest it might be foolish to argue with Bill about mechanics tools. Far more than a "weekend mechanic", Bill does do quite a bit of work on cars - and intimately knows the differences between the quality of tool manufacturers. He's one of those individuals I have called on when I've had a question about what the best tool would be to do the job - knowing that he would be in a position to best know...

[CoventryCat86]

How do you know Craftsman sockets suck, and break all the time if you've replaced them?

I'll give you the screwdriver example.

I don't understand your question and you're pulling your Scotty crap again by claiming I said something that I never said. I NEVER said they break "all the time"

Here's what I said:

"Craftsman sockets suck and break far more often than Snap-On sockets" and that's a true statement.

"far more often" is completely different from your false "all the time" claim so please, knock it off.......

When I've brought the broken ones back to Sears and got replacements, they've broken too. And I'm not using them improperly, they break because they suck. I've never broken a Snap-On socket.

Your Craftsman to Snap-On socket set comparison is apples to oranges (you cited Snap-On DEEP sockets and Craftsman REGULAR sockets and for someone like you who claims you know better, you're either not anywhere near as smart as you're trying to lead us all to believe or you are that smart and your deliberately misleading us. Either way you're wrong and irresponsible), and you're real vague on the tool CHEST (not "tools" but "tools chest") comparison so that's not valid either, try again.

Geez, talk about someone who "likes to argue" you've gotten to the point where you're not even arguing rationally, you're just arguing for the sake of arguing and you're losing.

[badwhale]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

Yeah, I did have the wrong link. Sorry, then compare $258/$29.99 = 8.6 more apples

I'm also sorry that you can't consider that I may have a point, that Snap-on tools may not cost THAT MUCH MORE to produce, but their prices reflect a measurable increase in quality, proprietary design cost, distribution & marketing.

Do you feel their prices are justified, and if so, why don't you just order directly from the website, or have your bro pick you up tools off the snappy truck?

[CoventryCat86]

http://buy1.snapon.com/catalog/item....re&dir=catalog

Yeah, I did have the wrong link. Sorry, then compare $258/$29.99 = 8.6 more apples

I'm also sorry that you can't consider that I may have a point, that Snap-on tools may not cost THAT MUCH MORE to produce, but their prices reflect a measurable increase in quality, proprietary design cost, distribution & marketing.

Do you feel their prices are justified, and if so, why don't you just order directly from the website, or have your bro pick you up tools off the snappy truck?

I feel their prices are justified but if I can get them cheaper somewhere else, then I do. I have regular access to a Snap-On truck and sometimes I buy tools at full retail plus tax directly from him, what's your point?

I think their tools do indeed cost more to produce since they are made in the USA instead of China or some third world country. Same thing with the work boots I buy, I buy Danner's that are made in the USA and they cost $350.00 Yep, there are also Danner's that are made in China that only cost $200.00 but they are significantly lower quality then the ones made here in the USA.

And once again, you still are either too stupid to see that the new link for the socket set you provided is NOT the same and the link to the Craftsman set you referenced because the Snap On set goes up to 1 1/8" and the Craftsman one only goes up to 15/16" OR you're deliberately still comparing apples to oranges figuring no one will bother to see if your pulling you "apples to oranges" comparison again (which you are), so please be truthful from now on if that's at all possible for you, okay? Thanks in advance.