the hero is the gun...

[TheSilentChamber]

Yeah, pot didnt make them do it. I'v smoked alot of pot and I'v only shot a few people... numbers dont lie man.

[cigarsarge]

Yeah, pot didnt make them do it. I'v smoked alot of pot and I'v only shot a few people... numbers dont lie man.

What kind of ignorant post is this? If you take leave here you won't be missed.


Think about it...Two guys smoking pot in a vacant apartment with a gun present. They aren't the friendly type. WTF were they up to...Getting high before doing a robbery? Getting high before they rape your wife? Little different scenerio that you smoking a blunt with your buds and watching a movie.

I live in a world where reality comes home on a daily basis. The reality is these guys were an ozing sore on the butt of society. Maybe you would like to party with them!!

One thing for sure...Society won't miss them.

[SuperChuck]

Think about it...Two guys smoking pot in a vacant apartment with a gun present.

They actually didn't have the handgun present; the article says one guy left and returned with the handgun. That makes me think they were just stupid kids getting high.

[cigarsarge]

They were 20 and 27..Not really kids. Chances are if you pull up their rap sheet you will see a lot of history.

People that hang out in vacant buildings, smoke dope and posess firearms...Well it's easy to figure out.

[superman78]

Am i reading this right Silent Chamber talking about how people feel .Have you turned over a new leaf?

[SuperChuck]

They were 20 and 27..Not really kids. Chances are if you pull up their rap sheet you will see a lot of history.

Being 27 doesn't make you mature. My guess is he probably has about the mindset of a 15 year old.

People that hang out in vacant buildings, smoke dope and posess firearms...Well it's easy to figure out.

This actually sounds a lot like my brother-in-law. He's like 23, lives in his mother's house with his wife and kids, doesn't take a damn bit of responsibility, smokes dope on a daily basis, and really thinks he's a big tough guy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he would someday manage to get a gun just to look tough. And if he found a vacant apartment, he'd think it was the greatest place in the world to smoke dope. And when you're high, things like shooting your best friend make total sense (I once sat on the steps of a pub in Amsterdam, unable to determine which voices were real and which were fake).

Point is, he's an idiot, but he certainly wouldn't be hatching some plot to rob a bank or something out of a Dick Tracy novel. Pardon my saying so, but it's a bit ignorant to make a bunch of assumptions about a couple kids based on a couple lines from a newspaper article. It's really not that different to say "they smoke dope and have access to a handgun so they must be criminals" than to say "they were black, so they must be criminals".

[cigarsarge]

Being 27 doesn't make you mature. My guess is he probably has about the mindset of a 15 year old.


This actually sounds a lot like my brother-in-law. He's like 23, lives in his mother's house with his wife and kids, doesn't take a damn bit of responsibility, smokes dope on a daily basis, and really thinks he's a big tough guy. I wouldn't be at all surprised if he would someday manage to get a gun just to look tough. And if he found a vacant apartment, he'd think it was the greatest place in the world to smoke dope. And when you're high, things like shooting your best friend make total sense (I once sat on the steps of a pub in Amsterdam, unable to determine which voices were real and which were fake).

Point is, he's an idiot, but he certainly wouldn't be hatching some plot to rob a bank or something out of a Dick Tracy novel. Pardon my saying so, but it's a bit ignorant to make a bunch of assumptions about a couple kids based on a couple lines from a newspaper article. It's really not that different to say "they smoke dope and have access to a handgun so they must be criminals" than to say "they were black, so they must be criminals".

I live in a world where I deal with people like that on a daily basis so I am not ignorant on the subject. I often go into vacant houses and apartments to arrest criminals of all kinds. most of em smoke dope...Which is a crime.. They also are trespassing which is a crime, and 75% of them have access to a firearm. This is in addition to the outstanding charges I am looking to find them on. Just what kind of folks do you believe hang out in these places?

Sounds like in your statement being high is a defense to shooting one's friend. That statment is flawed in the worst manner. If smoking dope makes that kind of thing acceptable in ones mind...Why do it?

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and looks like a duck...It's a bloody duck.

By the way, I make no assumptions of people by race creed or color. I base my opinion of people by their actions. You made an assumption based on no knowledge about the twenty seven year old having the mind of a fifteen year old. Well for what it's worth I have seen some fifteen year olds with a criminal mind that you would not believe.

[bigpoppapuff]

in addition...crown heights isn't the best area of NYC...and the part of crown heights that they were in was worse....

to defend these pieces of shit is amazing to me...they were fucking warts....

[SuperChuck]

Two guys smoking pot in a vacant apartment with a gun present. They aren't the friendly type. WTF were they up to...Getting high before doing a robbery? Getting high before they rape your wife?

This is two misdemeaner offenses. From this you make the assumption that they are not only evil people for smoking marijuana and trespassing (neither of which is terribly harmful to anyone but themselves), but that they are obviously planning to commit a felony.

I choose to treat each person with respect and dignity, in spite of whatever prejudices I may have against them for where they live, their race, their creed, their social upbringing, etc. I realize this makes me sound like a naive, stupid kid. I realize that I could very easily say "these kids are a scourge on society and are obviously bad people" and be liked by everyone. However, to me, saying "these kids are obviously evil because they smoke marijuana" is no different than saying they're evil because they are black or white or hispanic or muslim or jewish. It's making a pre-judgement based on very little solid information.

[cigarsarge]

This is two misdemeaner offenses. From this you make the assumption that they are not only evil people for smoking marijuana and trespassing (neither of which is terribly harmful to anyone but themselves), but that they are obviously planning to commit a felony.

I choose to treat each person with respect and dignity, in spite of whatever prejudices I may have against them for where they live, their race, their creed, their social upbringing, etc. I realize this makes me sound like a naive, stupid kid. I realize that I could very easily say "these kids are a scourge on society and are obviously bad people" and be liked by everyone. However, to me, saying "these kids are obviously evil because they smoke marijuana" is no different than saying they're evil because they are black or white or hispanic or muslim or jewish. It's making a pre-judgement based on very little solid information.

OK Chuck here is a little solid info for you. About 90% of people in jail are there due to some substance abuse. A vast majority of them steal, rob and burglarize to support their lifestyle. They also commit acts of domestic violence, abuse and neglect their offspring.

People that hang in vacant buildings also steal from those buildings. Have you ever talked to a property owner that has had his pipes and wiring stolen by unlawful inhabitants. Have you ever talked to property owners that have been vandalized by the same folks. I have. Trespassing on the surface may not look that bad...But it is.

Believe it or not drug use is a factor in violent crime and property crime. I do have solid information based on my experences. People that use illegal drugs open themselves to be judged. They choose to participate in illegal activites. I really have no problem with someone smoking a joint at their home. When they bring it into the street or neglect themselves or family or commit crimes against you it becomes everyones problem.

The totality of the circumstances in these two men's unfortunate demise speak for themselves. There is no way to justify their actions.

I make my living my making judgement calls on people. I stay alive by making judgement calls on the same. I feel I am qualifed to make a call on this based on the totality of the circumstances DESCRIBED in this incident. If you have more info please post it.

By the way...I treat people with respect and dignity when dealing with them. Usually I do not get the same respect back when dealing with a drug infulenced criminal.

To reiterate...Smoking pot is a crime as well as trespassing. That makes you a criminal if you choose engage in that sort of behavior. Murdering you fellow man is a crime. That makes you a criminal if you engage in that kind of behavior.

If you are so sure people that hang out in vacant buildings and smoke dope are OK...I suggest you go hang with em. You might get a little surprise.

[SuperChuck]

OK Chuck here is a little solid info for you. About 90% of people in jail are there due to some substance abuse.

While this is true, those people are not in jail for committing a violent crime. They are in jail for posessing or dealing an illegal substance. And my girlfriend knows many of them. :) I don't. I know the guys that are in for violent crimes. And one of them has my white practice jersey.

To reiterate...Smoking pot is a crime as well as trespassing. That makes you a criminal if you choose engage in that sort of behavior. Murdering you fellow man is a crime. That makes you a criminal if you engage in that kind of behavior.

So it speeding, littering, not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign, watering your lawn during a water ban, and parking on the wrong side of the street. But it's not right for me to suspect them of committing a heinous crime because they do something as morally wrong as parking in a 2 hour zone for 3 hours...

If you are so sure people that hang out in vacant buildings and smoke dope are OK...I suggest you go hang with em. You might get a little surprise.

I live with one of them. That's the environment my girlfriend grew up in. Most of them are just a hazard to themselves. For the most part, they'll spend their lives in and out of jails and prisons, getting picked up on posession or some petty theft or something. I think pinning them as mother rapers and father rapers is a bit of a prejudice. They're probably not going to end up on the town council, but they're not likely to end up on the front page, either.

-----------------------------

Is there an award for most quotes in one post?

[cigarsarge]

Chuck...You and I are never gonna agree but that is OK. I see things in a way that you obviously cannot understand. My job is to protect society. I am trained to factor things into my decision making that a civilian is not aware are possibilities. What you see on the surface is not always what is reality.

I will say drug dealers are a violent type of people. In most every drug raid I have ever done weapons were found in close proximity to the dealers if not on them. People that abuse drugs are prone to violence due to mental decay. Give em a gun and they are dangerous. Just ask the two dead guys.

I do feel empathy for these drug usere. I wish there were more ways to get them turned around. That's my wife's department as she is a nurse at the jail where I take these folks.
She has got a good dose of reality and is starting to realize what people that abuse drugs are capabile of.

[SuperChuck]

You and I are never gonna agree but that is OK.

That I agree with.

I was thinking the same thing and I'm VERY glad you're able to respectfully disagree with someone. That's surprisingly hard to come by. I totally respect you as a person and for the work you do, so I'm glad that I'm able to throw a little criticism your way without catching (too much) hell.

I was a little worried because, unfortunately, a lot of the cops I've bumped into online play the "I put my life on the line for people like you every day while you sit on your ass, so how dare you criticize blah blah blah" card really quickly... Then another cop on the forum will pipe up and before you know it everyone's taking sides (usually the cop's side, cuz that's very popular these days) and soon I find it's me against the whole board just because I think Miranda Rights was a good ruling.

I will say drug dealers are a violent type of people. In most every drug raid I have ever done weapons were found in close proximity to the dealers if not on them.

Some drug dealers are violent, but I think most are mostly paranoid. They have two commodities that are hot on the street: cash and drugs. There are a lot of people that are more than happy to take either or both. Add the police into that mix and they're COMPLETELY paranoid. I think most keep guns around as a form of protection. That's certainly not to say all drug dealers are non-violents, but the dealers that I've met are interested in protecting themselves and their assets.