Riots in France

[Cohibanut]

Let me expand on this. I am in no way saying that France is the best country on earth and that the French are free of any weaknesses. What I’m saying is that I am sick to death with people calling them cowards. Cowards they are not. They are a proud people with a huge history and hold a place in history past, present and future which can rival that of any great country on earth.

They are a rational people as opposed to a people enclined to follow its guts and Independence-Day-like rhetoric at the first sign of trouble.

Talking about wars, do not forget that the whole of europe in its 2000 years of history has seen more deaths through wars, genocides and various other horrors than the US ever will. This weight on our (Europe’s) shoulder combined with the 1,000,000 million death of the first world war, the 700,000 or so deaths of the second world war may go some way to explain France’s reluctance to engage in a conflict without careful thinking and , yes, reasoning.

Do you only realise how much in the shit the US is at the moment? With borrowing at an all time high, two natural disasters of epic scale to deal with running into billions of dollars, a war in Iraq it is incapable of finishing and a conflict in Afghanistan it doesn’t even know how to deal with?

You say "after the dirty work was done" it is NOT done. Look at the state of Iraq!!! It's a total mess. THAT is the reason why France wanted to use diplomacy in the first place.

[Cohibanut]

Hey guys .

I am REALLY grateful for that. I absolutely agree that none of this is personal. Just different points of view and I am really glad we can exchange them.

Hell, if we didn't live so far appart we could have a chat over a few beers and a fine cigars!!!

[Jonsey5484]

Yes, I guess using the phrase "dirty work is done" is sort of false. There are still terror bombings all over, what ticks me off the most though is that French want in now that we are in decision making process, they would not help us take over Iraq and now they want to help us make decisions on how to turn it back to the people. They have no right in any decision making.

[reaganyouth84]

You say "after the dirty work was done" it is NOT done. Look at the state of Iraq!!! It's a total mess. THAT is the reason why France wanted to use diplomacy in the first place.

I will say that we are a long way away from securing Iraq, but people in this day and age are impatient. They don't understand things on a grand scale. What the U.S. is trying to do in Iraq is to give them a new government, a better way of life. We aren't out trying to just blow the whole place up, if we were, we could have done that in a couple of days. The thing is, a war like this is on a grand scale, we will be there for decades. Look at WWII, there are American forces STILL IN EUROPE 50 YEARS LATER trying to secure the peace, trying to rebuild. I believe we are in Iraq for the right cause. I will never forget seeing this little Iraqi boy on t.v. one night, holding a sign that said, "Thank you Mr. Bush", God, it broke my heart.

-Mike

[Cohibanut]

Hey guys, I think I agree that we'll agree to disagree ( ).

It has indeed been a pleasure to have this lively discussion and it is a shame that we don't live closer!! We could have turned this into a (friendly ) debate over a few beers and cigars.

Or a glass of french wine perhaps?

I must add that I love the US. I have been there many times and will most definitely go back.

Keep a stack of beers in the fridge! I may knock at your doors with a couple of smokes one day!

[Jonsey5484]

Hey guys, I think I agree that we'll agree to disagree ( ).

It has indeed been a pleasure to have this lively discussion and it is a shame that we don't live closer!! We could have turned this into a (friendly ) debate over a few beers and cigars.

Or a glass of french wine perhaps?

I must add that I love the US. I have been there many times and will most definitely go back.

Keep a stack of beers in the fridge! I may knock at your doors with a couple of smokes one day!

My address is inmy profile, you know where to find me!!

[reaganyouth84]

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."
-Ronald Reagan

"We did not seek the role of leadership that has been thrust upon us. But whether we like it or not, the events of our time demand America's participation." -Ronald Reagan

-Mike

[watty]

Sorry to be the Englishman in the woodpile, but, if it was in the French interest, they would invade, attack, frag , nuke or generally do anything they fucking wanted to do, irrespective of international opinion. As is their want.
The French are a singularly selfish nation and never tire of demonstrating that fact.
Look at London after WW2 and look at Paris after WW2.
We in Britain could have declared our cities as OPEN, but like the Russians, WE fought on.
God bless them for it, and for the intervention of the USA, or else ALL our children would be speaking German
Sorry..ain't got a lot of time for em.

[nhcigarfan]

Lest we forget. One reason the French didn't want to invade Iraq is that they didn't know what would be found. Including any "off spring" of the " nuclear energy" installation Mr. Chirac gave to Sadam, that the Israelis destroyed in Western Iraq years ago.

[Cohibanut]

Sorry to be the Englishman in the woodpile, but, if it was in the French interest, they would invade, attack, frag , nuke or generally do anything they fucking wanted to do, irrespective of international opinion. As is their want.

Yes. Absolutely. By "the french" I take it you mean the French Government? Yes. You are right. Exactly as Tony Blair has done by sticking with GW Bush as it was in the economical interest of the UK to do so.

The French are a singularly selfish nation and never tire of demonstrating that fact.
Look at London after WW2 and look at Paris after WW2.
We in Britain could have declared our cities as OPEN, but like the Russians, WE fought on.
God bless them for it, and for the intervention of the USA, or else ALL our children would be speaking German
Sorry..ain't got a lot of time for em.

You miss one absolutely crucial difference here. England did NOT have to suffer the devastating effect of Hitler's Bliztkrieg. In other words, he did not attempt to invade England. He bombed the hell out of it instead (and everyone will always admire the extraodinary resolve of the british throughout this awful period. You were trully a marvellous example to us all.)

This is what annoys me whenever I hear about French being cowards and surrending at the first opportunity: Hitler DID NOT TRY to invade England. He may have planned for it towards the second half of the war but certainly not at the beginning.

If it had been the case, if he'd launched a full offensive against england in 1939 with the same might and speed applied in France the result would have been somewhat different.


Rant over.

[Jonsey5484]

War is a dirty thing. There will always be deaths and hardships. Unfortunatly with the war in Iraq, and the post war. The problem is that the Liberal Media has made the decision that we have no business in Iraq, so to make it look worse than it actually is is their goal. Tell me, when was the last time you looked at a newspaper, or watched the news and the news media reported that another school has been built, or a hospital, or police station?? I bet you can say never. The news only shows the gory bombings and terror. They don't want to show you all the good that is being done. Kids and Adults being vaccinated and educated. Police trained. The news will never show you that because they want Bush to look bad. I don't believe a single thing I hear or read from the media. They are just out there to show the bad stuff.

Damn, now I got started on the Media!!! I think we need to lock out this thread!