God Bless America....

[cigarsarge]

I was listening to Gordon Liddy this week. He said a recent study showed 10% of Mexico's population is now here. That is a large drain on our economy.

[kirkus949]

there is no drain on our economy. having illegal immigrants is good because they provide the cheap labor neccasary to provide a functioning economy. the standard of living is very high because those studies are based on registered persons and not on illegals who provide manual and base labor for many different industries

[MCsommerreid]

Who's down for a 52nd state?

[cinda]

The more the merryer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[cigarsarge]

there is no drain on our economy. having illegal immigrants is good because they provide the cheap labor neccasary to provide a functioning economy. the standard of living is very high because those studies are based on registered persons and not on illegals who provide manual and base labor for many different industries

First of all there is no such thing as illegal immigrants. If you come to America legally you immigrate. If not you are simply illegal and have violated the law.

Second of all you do not have a clue on the financial drain. Ever hear of public health. Guess where illegals go for medical attention. Guess who pays the bill...Not them.

Ever got into a car crash with an illegal. Guess who has no insurance. Guess who pays the bill...Not them.

Out of 10 million illegals if 500,000 are in jail, a reasonible guess...probably on the low side... Guess who pays the bill for their upkeep while there...Not them.

Ever ask an illegal where his money goes after he gets his check. A bare minimum stays here. They pool their money to live. A vast majority of it leaves the country to prop up Mexico.

Take a look at just who crosses the border illegally. Mexico is flushing their own toilet..Just as Castro did.

[thepyrofish]

Not to be picky sarge, but dictionary.com defines immigrant as:

im·mi·grant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (m-grnt)
n.
A person who leaves one country to settle permanently in another.
A plant or animal that establishes itself in an area where it previously did not exist.

adj.
Of or relating to immigrants or the act of immigrating.

Therefore anyone who chooses to settle in America is an immigrant, whether they do it legally or not, making the term valid.


Other than that I agree with you completely.

[cigarsarge]

Not to be picky sarge, but dictionary.com defines immigrant as:


Therefore anyone who chooses to settle in America is an immigrant, whether they do it legally or not, making the term valid.


Other than that I agree with you completely.

The sarge flings his outdated dictionary out the window a he lights up another cigar.

[Shelby07]

Not to be picky sarge, but dictionary.com defines immigrant as:


Therefore anyone who chooses to settle in America is an immigrant, whether they do it legally or not, making the term valid.


Other than that I agree with you completely.

Many are migrants. They don't plan on staying here. They just come up for the work and send the money back home to their families.

I wonder if employers would be able to up the wages of the low paying jobs and make them more palatable if they didn't have to pay the higher taxes associated with the costs of illegals.

By the way, looking up the definition of "immigrant" without including the word "illegal" gives an incorrect context.

[basil]

At first glance, I thought the initial post was bias. After reading the others and reflecting on my own experience, I'm understanding the positions here.

I grew up in a largely rural and agricultural community, working on cattle and sheep ranches, a large hog farm, and spent two summers farming on a tractor. Now, we can blame a work force for not being willing to work at cheaper wages, but that wouldn't be the whole story. Those in agri-industries all over this country are under constant assault from an economy where it is increasingly more difficult to earn a living doing what has often been a multi-generational endeavor. This is reflected in various lobbying and famously in Farm Aid (john melloncamp, willie nelson, etc.) So, the farmer and rancher have to widen their profit margins where ever they can. They have been doing so in Texas ever since the area separated itself from Mexico with the Rio Grande. And at least this long throughout the southwest. To save the farm? Yeah, but damn, this is free enterprise and cheap labor equals better profit and this is the American way. Losing the farm is not always the motivator. Not only the people, but also the trend of cheap labor migrated north and to other industry, right along all the paths of free enterprise.

I also grew up working with these illegals. Some had different names for them: wetbacks, often used derrogatorily, but sometimes as a valid term of designation that implied the wage for which the person in question was willing to work; "wetback" was financial term. They called themselves mujou (pronounced moo-how'). I don't know what this word really translates to - there are several other Spanish words for deer. But I know what they meant - they had to stay hidden, in brush and shadows and quietly dissappear at first sign of la shota, their term for the Border Patrol. Crossing the border and traveling crosscountry, they lived much like the deer with which they shared the countryside. These people sometimes spent their entire working careers working for a family, becoming permanent figures in the day-to-day lives of those with whom they lived. The arguments then were similar to those now: illegals were often not financially responsible for themselves. But sometimes they were, more often then than now, I'll bet. They stole jobs from locals. They drained an area of its finances. More recently, they take up our prison and welfare space.

I don't know what the answers are. I know that having grown up here has put me in the habit of seeing these problems as ones that are familiar, a part of life, and borne of and perpetuated by a need for a convenient solution to an insatiable economy.

[Shelby07]

No reply to any specific post, just my opinion...

The borders need to be secured. We have 12 million people in this country that we have no idea who they are or what they are doing here. That's 1 in 25 people. Many are working, sure, and for the most part they will give a good honest day's work for their pay. But many are not. We are at war, not only overseas but right here at home. And securing the borders not only refers to the Mexican border, but also the Canadian border. That is, in fact, where the terrorists entered. No other country in the world allows undocumented entry as easily as we do.

Being a friendly neighbor is all well and good in peacetime. In reality, our current 4.9% unemployment level is almost nothing. So I don't think many Americans are really out of work because of migrant workers. However, I do believe that the tax burden is increased because of them. But either way, the issue in my mind goes back to keeping the bad guys out. When I had the flight school hardly a week went by when the FBI or TSA wasn't coming around looking for people who were perceived as a threat and thought to be in the area. And that was just the local area.

So, they are here. We need to be diligent not only in finding the bad guys, but keeping them from sneaking in in the first place. This isn't about mexican workers, it's about our nation's security.

[thepyrofish]

Many are migrants. They don't plan on staying here. They just come up for the work and send the money back home to their families.

Touche

By the way, looking up the definition of "immigrant" without including the word "illegal" gives an incorrect context.

I disagree. The point in question was whether the term immigrant referred to legals only or illegals as well. Looking up the term illegal immigrant would have answered nothing, as cigarsarge was contending that it wasn't a proper term at all.

[Shelby07]

Touche



I disagree. The point in question was whether the term immigrant referred to legals only or illegals as well. Looking up the term illegal immigrant would have answered nothing, as cigarsarge was contending that it wasn't a proper term at all.

Technically you are correct. However, our language constantly evolves, and whether or not it is in the dictionary, the term "illegal immigrant" has worked its way into our language and our culture. The two word phrase is conventionally understood to mean undocumented foreign nationals who have circumvented the required process of entering our country, and very different than just the word "immigrant."