A president or a self proclaimed pope

[SuperChuck]

Damn, I missed all the fun...

The separation of church and state is probably one of the most misunderstood parts of the US government. The church and state are separate entities, as in segregated, as in separate but equal. As in not the same.

Consider the situation in England, who previously ruled over the American Colonies. In England, the church is run by the monarch.
(Side note: if you want a good laugh, stand outside Westminster Abbey on a Sunday morning and watch the brothers try to explain to American Catholics that the Church of England is not Roman Catholic)

In this new nation, they didn't want to end up in the same mess. So, they made sure they were separate. As kind of a side-effect, we get more free religion. "Freedom of religion" is not explicit in the Bill of Rights, but if the government is not allowed to meddle in the affairs of the church, it's implied.

Without getting into the effect of Freemasonry on the formation of the United States, you find pseudo-religious stuff all over in government. The formation documents are littered with references to God or Providence. On the obverse of the Great Seal, we find the Eye of Providence. When George Washington takes the oath of office, his response is "So help me God" (this has since been added to the oath). Bibles are still used for oaths.

The founding fathers in no way envisioned a secular state, but they didn't envision a nation ruled by religious whim, either. They envisioned a rational state in which the two are balanced. (Notably, this is where the issue of the Ten Commandments comes complicated; is it religious law or a legal basis?)

So WTF is my point?

The President is free to have his own religious beliefs. He is free to express them. He should express them as his personal beliefs. He is not trying to impose his religious beliefs on the people, nor is he trying to run the church from the oval office. Church and state are separate and we can all go home.

Since I rambled on and on about the Bill of Rights, I might as well entertain with a trivia question...

How many states were represented at the Constitutional Convention?

[nhcigarfan]

At least the monkey's weren't pissing on Mohammed. I would hate to see any of you get your head cut off over a cartoon.....

[WhiteWidow]

How many states were represented at the Constitutional Convention?

All 13 colonies except Rhode Island, who didn't have an appointment at the convention.

[SuperChuck]

All 13 colonies except Rhode Island, who didn't have an appointment at the convention.

We were quite happy with a loose confederation of states, thank you.

[WhiteWidow]

Texas could legally be its own state. It is the only one that joined the Union by treaty rather than annex. So Texas came on its own terms and could leave on its own as well.

[basil]

C'mon Basil, you can flash better English skills than that, sanctimoniousness.

ouch ouch ouch. You right. Ok, so I picked up the ditchinarry next to my desk and sniffed it. There are two forms of the noun - sanctimoniousness, and sanctimony. I think I was trying to splice in equanimity or something.

Texas could legally be its own state. It is the only one that joined the Union by treaty rather than annex. So Texas came on its own terms and could leave on its own as well.

Actually, the last time someone tried, they sent in a bunch of ATF, FBI, CIA, and such other acronymical agents and shot those bastards to pieces.

Sorry man, I just finished a Tom Robbins novel.

[WhiteWidow]

Actually, the last time someone tried, they sent in a bunch of ATF, FBI, CIA, and such other acronymical agents and shot those bastards to pieces.

Sorry man, I just finished a Tom Robbins novel.

Ya that was those Republic of Texas idiots. But technically, if the state govt. decided it wanted to it could leave. Probably wouldn't be a good idea though.

[cigar no baka]

ouch ouch ouch. You right. Ok, so I picked up the ditchinarry next to my desk and sniffed it. There are two forms of the noun - sanctimoniousness, and sanctimony. I think I was trying to splice in equanimity or something.






Actually, the last time someone tried, they sent in a bunch of ATF, FBI, CIA, and such other acronymical agents and shot those bastards to pieces.

Sorry man, I just finished a Tom Robbins novel.

Yep but those were just a few yahoos. If the majority made up its mind, it would be completely different. We'd send those fuckers packing.