Go, Willie!

[cls515]

I don't think legalizing drugs will stop any problems except you won't have jail punishment for drugs. I think there will still be corruption, still be addiction...demand would probably increase. Crime would increase overseas to meet the demand if narcotic production is illegal. I was thinking it is similar to guns. Guns don't kill people, it is the people who kill. Same with drugs. It is the people who choose to use. So the problem is with people, and solutions should start at the problem.
Edit - I think that one of the problems is that America is too lenient. We claim we want to have a war on drugs, yet all the punishment is is a slap on the hand, jail time, prison time...when the person using gets out they can go right back to what they were doing and hope not to "go back" to jail. If we want to stop drug usage, and I mean stop, then punishment must be more severe. First determine what is illegal. Since it is defined, if someone gets caught the first time, cut off their arm. If they get caught again, cut off their other arm. For a third time, kill them. I guarantee you will see a drop in drug usage in America. I know that this punishment is extreme and would never fly, but think about what my message is. If you still don't want to see that, check out this scenaro. Say children in school are getting sent to the principal's office because they are cussing. To stop the problem, do you make it ok for them to cuss so they won't get sent to the principal's office?

[SmokinDVM]

I don't think legalizing drugs will stop any problems except you won't have jail punishment for drugs. I think there will still be corruption, still be addiction...demand would probably increase. Crime would increase overseas to meet the demand if narcotic production is illegal. I was thinking it is similar to guns. Guns don't kill people, it is the people who kill. Same with drugs. It is the people who choose to use. So the problem is with people, and solutions should start at the problem.

It's already been shown that it REDUCES drug use, not increase it. Crime also goes down. It's just our Government that refuses to see the reality of the situation. Besides, it's been well established that prohibition of anything doesn't work.

Increasing the punishments will only make selling more lucrative. Bigger punishments, bigger payoffs.

[cinda]

I don't think legalizing drugs will stop any problems except you won't have jail punishment for drugs. I think there will still be corruption, still be addiction...demand would probably increase. Crime would increase overseas to meet the demand if narcotic production is illegal. I was thinking it is similar to guns. Guns don't kill people, it is the people who kill. Same with drugs. It is the people who choose to use. So the problem is with people, and solutions should start at the problem.
Edit - I think that one of the problems is that America is too lenient. We claim we want to have a war on drugs, yet all the punishment is is a slap on the hand, jail time, prison time...when the person using gets out they can go right back to what they were doing and hope not to "go back" to jail. If we want to stop drug usage, and I mean stop, then punishment must be more severe. First determine what is illegal. Since it is defined, if someone gets caught the first time, cut off their arm. If they get caught again, cut off their other arm. For a third time, kill them. I guarantee you will see a drop in drug usage in America. I know that this punishment is extreme and would never fly, but think about what my message is. If you still don't want to see that, check out this scenario. Say children in school are getting sent to the principals office because they are cussing. To stop the problem, do you make it ok for them to cuss so they won't get sent to the principals office?

I am talking about adults who would be well versed though even higher levels of educations on drugs and made well aware of the general stigma that would be attached to it. As for limb removal for punishment? I think that will increase the need for our SSD budget and give the punished more opportunity to be unemployed and collecting.

[cls515]

As for limb removal for punishment? I think that will increase the need for our SSD budget and give the punished more opportunity to be unemployed and collecting.

Then just make an amendment. Drug related charges nullify the rights.

[cigar no baka]

The simple fact that convinces me we should not punish the weed-heads out there is this: you cannot force the US populace to stop doing something with legislation and punishment, if they really, REALLY want to do it, and a large percentage of the populace is doing. The result of attempting to legislate against something like this is you criminalize their behavior and have to punish a huge number of Americans with all the costs, financial and other, involved.

I think a very large minority of Americans either have used weed, or do use it regularly. Even if it is only 5% who use it regularly, they continue to use it regularly in spite of it being illegal iwth consequences. For arguments sake let's say it is only 2% - that is six million Americans you have turned into criminals who you now have to punish if you catch them.

The reason that legislating against other kinds of behavior workwell - like theft, murder, rape, robbery, etc - is that the vast majority of us don't want to do those things and consider them reprehensible. They are an integral part of our social contract. I think the number of people using weed vastly outnumbers all other criminals combined, so we have to ask - is it worth all the resources we commit to the war on drugs such as weed?

I don't put hard drugs into the same category as weed. I think we're losing the war on weed, and will always lose it, we'll just keep pissing money away and millions, if not tens of millions of Americans, will continue to use it and take the risks involved.

[BigMacFU]

Baka, I don't buy that logic because it cannot be applied universally. Murder/genocide was built into the social contract of the Weimer Republic as reprehensible. Didn't matter though did it, and Hitler legalized it. The majority of people were cool with it. So, it was right for Hitler to legalize it, and anytime the majority of people start committing a specific crime, we should legalize it.

My guess is that more people cheat on their taxes than smoke weed. So, by your logic, let's legalize cheating on taxes. More people steal in this country than smoke weed, so let's legalize it.

If you don't believe the number of people who steal I cite a few things: 1) Ask any internal auditor at a company about legitimate employee expenses , 2) ask any lawyer whether or not a 15 minute phone call counts as a billable hour, 3) ask how many people have tried the grapes at a grocery store before buying the bag. Yet, no one really considers these things "bad," they do them willingly, knowingly, and many even smile.

Edit: Forgot to add Drunk Driving, Speeding, Jay-Walking, etc...

Finally, if that's not enough to convince you, I give you slavery!!! The majority of people in our country considered it perfectly fine, they owned slaves willingly and knowingly. Yet, while the majority of people in this country still owned slaves, the federal government sought to make it illegal. Now, the civil war was the result of many things, but according to your logic, slavery should have stayed legal.

The question shouldn't be, how many are doing it that grants its legality, it should be, what kind of effect does this have on our society? And ask anyone in general if they're pro-doping away all of our problems, be they through "legal" pharma-coms or illegal drugs?

As I wrote earlier, I'm against all types of doping, be they "legal" or illegal. Unless there really is some crazy chemical imbalance in your body that cannot be regulated with supplements, and your kid really is overactive (and not because you've used the TV to babysit them up till this point, thus teaching them no attention span and giving them no physical energy outlet), then the govt. should prevent it all. Personally, I'd like to see the government go after the pharma-coms more than the do mary jane pushers.

[cigar no baka]

Baka, I don't buy that logic because it cannot be applied universally. Murder/genocide was built into the social contract of the Weimer Republic as reprehensible. Didn't matter though did it, and Hitler legalized it. The majority of people were cool with it. So, it was right for Hitler to legalize it, and anytime the majority of people start committing a specific crime, we should legalize it.

My guess is that more people cheat on their taxes than smoke weed. So, by your logic, let's legalize cheating on taxes. More people steal in this country than smoke weed, so let's legalize it.

If you don't believe the number of people who steal I cite a few things: 1) Ask any internal auditor at a company about legitimate employee expenses , 2) ask any lawyer whether or not a 15 minute phone call counts as a billable hour, 3) ask how many people have tried the grapes at a grocery store before buying the bag. Yet, no one really considers these things "bad," they do them willingly, knowingly, and many even smile.

Edit: Forgot to add Drunk Driving, Speeding, Jay-Walking, etc...

Finally, if that's not enough to convince you, I give you slavery!!! The majority of people in our country considered it perfectly fine, they owned slaves willingly and knowingly. Yet, while the majority of people in this country still owned slaves, the federal government sought to make it illegal. Now, the civil war was the result of many things, but according to your logic, slavery should have stayed legal.

The question shouldn't be, how many are doing it that grants its legality, it should be, what kind of effect does this have on our society? And ask anyone in general if they're pro-doping away all of our problems, be they through "legal" pharma-coms or illegal drugs?

As I wrote earlier, I'm against all types of doping, be they "legal" or illegal. Unless there really is some crazy chemical imbalance in your body that cannot be regulated with supplements, and your kid really is overactive (and not because you've used the TV to babysit them up till this point, thus teaching them no attention span and giving them no physical energy outlet), then the govt. should prevent it all. Personally, I'd like to see the government go after the pharma-coms more than the do mary jane pushers.

I see your point, but there are victims in all of the crimes you listed above. Where are the victims in drug use, specifically weed? I can take mind altering substances such as alcohol and damage myself, as long as I cause no damage to others, correct? So why can I not do so with other mind-altering substances? The benefit of banning such behavior far, far outweighs the costs. And remember, I am only speaking about weed, which is far less insidious and not addictive like drugs such as coke, heroin, etc.

[cinda]

A law is only as good as the people who uphold it.

A more common quote: A lock door keeps honest people out....