Funny Story.

[SmokinDVM]

Woops, maybe you confused fiction with parable..

Nope, no confusion.

[cls515]

And equally fictitious.

I'm curious as to how you can state as a matter of fact the New Testament is fictitious. On what basis are you making these claims?

[chefchris]

lenny bruce...the great comedian,said something about religion......i don't remember the exact quote but it had something to do with, if your religion works for you,that's cool....but don't push it in my face.......i totally agree....chris..if your Chritianity is working for you...excellent...but please,don't try to preach to me or try to sell it to me....

i respect everyones beliefs. i don't believe i have once pushed mine in anybody's face. all i have done is stated what i believed and have not shunned or looked down on anyone here and have been very respectful.

"i will post my side of it at the bottom in case anyone cares to read it." that is what i wrote in the original post, so it was a person's choice to read it. i made a point to not put it in the story.

if you have seen the any of the above differently, please let me know. i wasn't trying to preach.

[SmokinDVM]

I'm curious as to how you can state as a matter of fact the New Testament is fictitious. On what basis are you making these claims?

fic‧tion  /ˈfɪkʃən/ [fik-shuhn]
–noun
1. the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, esp. in prose form.
2. works of this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've all heard the fiction of her being in delicate health.
4. the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining.



I think any further discussion of this topic should be done in another forum.

[cls515]

fic‧tion  /ˈfɪkʃən/ [fik-shuhn]
–noun
1. the class of literature comprising works of imaginative narration, esp. in prose form.
2. works of this class, as novels or short stories: detective fiction.
3. something feigned, invented, or imagined; a made-up story: We've all heard the fiction of her being in delicate health.
4. the act of feigning, inventing, or imagining.



I think any further discussion of this topic should be done in another forum.

I would not mind discussing this topic in another forum. I understand what a fictional story is. But, I'm asking you, what is your basis for stating that the New Testament is fictional?

[rsanz]

Agreed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rsanz View Post
Stoning to death disobedient children, keeping slaves, selling children into slavery, putting to death those who continue to work on the sabbath, how eating shelfish and homosexuality are equal abominations along with wearling clothes made from different threads and planting different crops in the same field.


Please provide specific references to scripture as I have read the Bible and don't remember reading what you have written above. I do recall the Bible talking about slavery, but I believe it said if you are a slave you should be the best slave you can be.

Okay, in as far as i can get to order...

Deuteronomy 21:18-21

Leviticus 25:44

Exodus 21:7

Exodus 35:2

Lev. 11:10 (I was wrong, eating shelfish is a slightly lesser abomination than homosexuality)

Lev.19:19

Lev.1:9 (smoking a bull for the lord)

Forgive me if I've got them a bit mixed up, I haven't got a bible in the house for reference anymore.

Introduction of sorts. Surely you can see this is just my 4th post, so I'm a newbie here. I guess you know my stance regarding the separation of cigars and religion. I'm a 30 somthing bloke working for a pretty successfull local film company and have only recently been able to splash out on a few boxes of nice cigars. I haven't even got myself a humidor yet (but to be honest, I haven't really had any around long enought to require storing). Though, that should change very soon.

Anyway chefchris, I'm glad you've got a good source for cigars, but your boss sounds like an complete ass!

Cheers
Rich

Shit it's 11:11pm and it's just dawned on me that I didn't have smoke today! Bit bloody late now.

[Lopaka]

well, the funniest thing, i could've sworn you introduced yourself but i searched everywhere. i didn't see anything. hmmm. odd.

Actually no he hasn't and he either didn't read my post or is ignoring it.

I only titled it Hey Rsanz

[rsanz]

Actually no he hasn't and he either didn't read my post or is ignoring it.

I only titled it Hey Rsanz

No I didn't see it. But sort of introduced myself above. Is that cool or do you need more?

Cheers
Rich

[Quint]

When I smoke a good cigar and sip a good scotch I feel like I'm in Heaven does that count ???


Religion is such and explosive subject I'm surprised this thread has actually maintain some civility.

smokem if ya gottem.........

[Dru Lee Parsec]

RSanz:

I am an atheist, I am also smart enough to realize that acting like an asshat towards Christians is not the way to convert anyone to an objective and logical understanding of the universe.

You're welcome to your opinions and I even agree with most of them. But your method of expressing them sucks and is counter productive to atheist everywhere.

ChefChris is a good guy with a great sense of humor. He mentioned that he was a Christian and you start acting like an asshat. He wasn't preaching at us. He wasn't telling us that we're all evil because we don't believe the same things he does. He just mentioned it in context of the story. Your response was way out of line. You're the one that was the antagonist, not Chris.

[stjohnroe]

OK, fine, my 2pence (cents if you prefer) on the point of the original post.

The argument is about intention against dogma. Chris (as far as I can tell so far) and probably his boss are good people, but they have a difference of opinion on what being a good christian is all about. Some people believe that the concept of "turning the other cheek" and "do unto others as you would have them do unto you" are the true tenets of being a good christian (and as far as I am concerned, being a true, good human being). Some people on the other hand are a bit to tied up in the technicalities of the whole thing. I consider myself a decent human being but I love Calamari and mussles but (Leviticus 11:10 ) But anything in the seas or rivers that does not have fins and scales, regard as an abomination. Do not eat their meat and regard their carcasses as an abomination. says that I have a problem.

The fact is that I will never hold it against anyone that they hold views that are not in agreement with mine (within reason of course). The problem comes when someone tries to impose the beliefs that they hold upon me, whether that is by the process of refusing to employ me due to the difference in beliefs, swearing at me in the street, planting a bomb on the train that I am travelling in, or not allowing me to smoke a cigar outside of a bar that I like spending time at.

Chris, if this is the point that you were trying to make, stand up for yourself and tell anyone who tries to give you shite to off.

[chefchris]

Ok, to my knowledge, eating pork, or catfish, or whatever it was that you were eating is perfectly fine. That is Old Testament or Old Law that you quoted. So eat all the shell fish you want. And yes, people get extremely wrapped up in "rules and laws." Look at the Pharisees. There's a passage in Bible where the Pharisees are trying to trap Jesus and making it look as if He has broken the law of the Sabbath.

Matthew 12
10 And a man was there whose hand was withered. And they questioned Jesus, asking, "Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath?"--so that they might accuse Him. 11 And He said to them, "What man is there among you who has a sheep, and if it falls into a pit on the Sabbath, will he not take hold of it and lift it out?
12 "How much more valuable then is a man than a sheep! So then, it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath."
13 Then He said to the man, "Stretch out your hand!" He stretched it out, and it was restored to normal, like the other.
14 But the Pharisees went out and conspired against Him, as to how they might destroy Him.

He is saying that law is not a reliable guide to holiness. People should be judged on the heart, not on superficial actions.

Being a good Christian is not all about how you act, what you eat, how you look, it is about a relationship with Almighty God. It's about change, growth, and striving to be more like Christ. "For man looks at outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart."

The most important thing that happens within Christian spirtuality is when a person falls in love with Jesus. Trust Him and giving everything over to Him. All He wants is a relationship with you. Sure, you're gonna screw up. alot. He's gonna love you regardless.

I've been browsing over the ongoing debates about religion. Here is a passage from one of my favorite books, Blue Like Jazz by Donald Miller

"I was watching BET one night, and they were interviewing a man about jazz music. He said jazz music was invented by the first generation out of slavery. I thought that was beautiful because, while it is music, it is very hard to put on paper; it is so much more a language of the soul. It is as if the soul is saying something, something about freedom. I think Christian spirituality is alot like jazz music. I think loving Jesus is something you feel. I think it is something very difficult to get on paper. But it is no less real, no less meaningful, no less beautiful.

The first generation out of slavery invented jazz music. It is a music birthed out of freedom. And is the closest thing I know to Christian spirtuality. A music birthed out of freedom."

I have not joined in any of the discussions because of the above. It is so hard to get this stuff down on paper. Think about the person you love most in this world, then try and right down on one page why it is you love them so much and what they mean to you. No cheating and writing down, "words can't express ..." It is almost impossible to be able to pinpoint a feeling you have inside you, ecspecially concerning your relationship with Christ.

I hope that I am not coming off as "preachy". I'm pretty sure I haven't damned anyone to hell yet. Correct me if I'm wrong, of course. I just want Jesus to happen to you the way He happened to me.

[rsanz]

RSanz:

I am an atheist, I am also smart enough to realize that acting like an asshat towards Christians is not the way to convert anyone to an objective and logical understanding of the universe.

You're welcome to your opinions and I even agree with most of them. But your method of expressing them sucks and is counter productive to atheist everywhere.

ChefChris is a good guy with a great sense of humor. He mentioned that he was a Christian and you start acting like an asshat. He wasn't preaching at us. He wasn't telling us that we're all evil because we don't believe the same things he does. He just mentioned it in context of the story. Your response was way out of line. You're the one that was the antagonist, not Chris.

Dru...

1 - I'm not trying to convert (or witness to) anyone. Certianly not on my 2nd ever post here.

2 - I'm pretty sure I never said I was an ashiest. A pretty bold assumption.

3 - You're probably right, it was an inappropriate response to a well meaning funny story.

4 - Get off my fucking case.

6 - Don't give me any grief for missing out #5 (it was crap anyway).

7 - So what is the deal with being a christian and not allowing your employees to accept gifts of cigars?

9 - (#8 was a little bit shit too) I have fundie friends and get along okay with them.

10 - good night

Cheers
Rich