Starting Construction

[craig]

I tried using RO water and had a mold problem. IMHO you really should use distilled water. I'm sure you have a lot of cigars at stake. It could save you from a really bad day some day.
Good luck thoug.Sounds like it'll be an awesome set up.

In a walk-in?

Sounds like your RO system was contaminated.

No space for 216 lbs of beads? Sounds like a fundamental design flaw...

Actually, beads can be used: http://www.fuji-silysia.co.jp/englis..._home_gel.html

However, it sounds like there is enough cedar going in to serve the beads' buffering function.

(As an aside, Fuji's Artsorb beads (beads with Lithium-Chloride) are repackaged and sold by at least one reputable bead vendor.)

I'm not sure what an active humidifier is. Is it the kind with the centrifugal wheel that spins off tiny droplets. I understand that they can cause a white dust to settle out of the air. There are several technologies available. Maybe the wick type would be best if I could find one with enough capacity. The wicks are replaceable, so when they build up with calcium they are tossed.

There is also the heated element type, wet brick, and ultrasonic. Do they make one with a "flux capacitor"?

Active humidifier: has a fan.
Passive humidifer: doesn't have a fan.

(more or less)

The big wheel kind is no different from a wick/pleated filter/wet brick - they're all "evaporative" - essentially just like a wet towel with a fan blowing on the towel. Advantage: cheap. Disadvantages: The towel eventually gums up with whatever junk is in the water (usually calcium) and you replace it. Bad stuff can grow on the towel. You also can't turn them off, you can just switch them from active (fan on) to passive (fan off). (This is why some Cigar Oases have flapper valves.)

The second kind atomizes the water, either with pressure (like a spray bottle), or by shaking the water (ultrasonic), or some other method. These are the kind that generate white dust (with tap water) because all the junk that is gumming up the towel in the first type gets dumped into the air with this type. Hence RO water filtration, etc. Advantages: more effective than the above type (gets more moisture into the air faster and with less noise for the same footprint). Turns off. Less maintenance. Disadvantages: needs clean water to avoid the white dust, and a fairly large air space (i.e., they won't work that well in a typical cabinet humidor).

The third kind heats the water to convert the water to steam. This kind (obviously) generates heat, so isn't used that much until you get into humidifying large areas (unless you want the heat - remember Vicks Vaporizers?). Advantages: Steam is clean (germ-wise), and a steam humidifier is the most efficient. Disadvantage: highest initial cost. Probably can't be used for your application, although Honeywell does have some that might work.

Regardless of type, the important things are to: move the humidity (i.e., air) around - even when the humidifier is "off" (which is why Oust fans are so useful in Vinotemps, etc.); use a good humidistat, located properly; and, because humidistats work on RH and not absolute humidity, control temperature fluctuations.

You're storing closed boxes, so you don't have to get too fancy IMHO. Noise is probably not a huge concern, either. Myself, I'd start simple, although you might as well put in the plumbing now. Good luck!

(My humidifier was bucket of water with an aquarium heater and air stones in it - but I suspect that you don't want to get that simple )

[DeeDubya]

Craig,

That's some good information. Thanks for taking the time to help. Let me get a little further along with the project. I will have a "lot" of cedar in there for good RH buffering. I'll post some pics later today of current progress.

[DeeDubya]

I made a little progress between cigar breaks on Saturday. This is a pic from within showing the fixed shelves for full box storage. The slanted shelves for display will be to the left.



Here is a shot from within the game room.



My photo album has a few more progression pics.

[mrtr33]

This looks like a really cool project.

Quick question you may have answered, but I missed: how will the windows looking into the walk-in affect keeping the rh balanced? Are the windows weather-proofed?

Thanks for the pics. Looks like it's going to be a nice setup.

[DeeDubya]

This looks like a really cool project.

Quick question you may have answered, but I missed: how will the windows looking into the walk-in affect keeping the rh balanced? Are the windows weather-proofed?

Thanks for the pics. Looks like it's going to be a nice setup.

This was an exterior wall. The windows are well sealed. I've considered everything to make sure it is well sealed and insulated. The humidifier might not have to be as large as I once thought.

Thanks for the interest, it is a fun project.

[craig]

Now that's a lot of wood!

Ambient RH looks pretty good. (I could only find Austin RH data on-line http://www.txstate.edu/freemanranch/...limatology.pdf , as I can't access NOAA's detailed data because I'm not in the US.) Once your door is in, you can probably season the wood in the room by just opening that outside window at night!

What's your in-house RH like? I'm guessing that will drive how big a humidifier you will need.

I am assuming that there is no air exchange other than the door opening/closing, you are not planning on smoking in there (?), and your cooling is from the house interior via those big windows. You may have to point an oscillating fan (from inside the humidor) at the windows to reduce the windows' insulating efficiency and prevent condensation forming on the windows. Or maybe not, I'm just guessing from looking at the pics. (Glass is not a good insulator, but the thin layer of dead air up against the glass is. That's why double-glazed windows work.)

I'd be tempted to start with something like this one, which maxes at 65%RH: http://www.kaz.com/kaz/store/product...a8b4afac8ee4d/ (Honeywell HCM-6012I) The price of consumer units is so low compared to meant-for-cigars units ...

You can always plumb in an RO system somewhere where you can use it as a source of drinking/cooking water as well, and then later modify the reservoir for constant refilling.

Anyhow, just a suggestion. No doubt Bob Staebell can set you up with what you need without a lot of guessing/extra work/experimentation/etc. A lot of times it is worth the extra cost to pay for the "voice of experience."

Good luck!

[DeeDubya]

Now that's a lot of wood!

Ambient RH looks pretty good. (I could only find Austin RH data on-line http://www.txstate.edu/freemanranch/...limatology.pdf , as I can't access NOAA's detailed data because I'm not in the US.) Once your door is in, you can probably season the wood in the room by just opening that outside window at night!

What's your in-house RH like? I'm guessing that will drive how big a humidifier you will need.

I am assuming that there is no air exchange other than the door opening/closing, you are not planning on smoking in there (?), and your cooling is from the house interior via those big windows. You may have to point an oscillating fan (from inside the humidor) at the windows to reduce the windows' insulating efficiency and prevent condensation forming on the windows. Or maybe not, I'm just guessing from looking at the pics. (Glass is not a good insulator, but the thin layer of dead air up against the glass is. That's why double-glazed windows work.)

I'd be tempted to start with something like this one, which maxes at 65%RH: http://www.kaz.com/kaz/store/product...a8b4afac8ee4d/ (Honeywell HCM-6012I) The price of consumer units is so low compared to meant-for-cigars units ...

You can always plumb in an RO system somewhere where you can use it as a source of drinking/cooking water as well, and then later modify the reservoir for constant refilling.

Anyhow, just a suggestion. No doubt Bob Staebell can set you up with what you need without a lot of guessing/extra work/experimentation/etc. A lot of times it is worth the extra cost to pay for the "voice of experience."

Good luck!

Craig,

Sorry to dissapoint you but I have already been smoking in there, a lot! Fortunately, I am a long way from storing cigars, and that little box fan sucks everything out when it's in the window. Yes, the condensation problem might occur, so we will have to wait and see. what happens there.

In-house RH is controlled at 50% more or less. I'm fortunate to have Bamboo flooring and Palmwood furniture and they don't like low humidity so I take care of them.

Oh, by the way I live only a few miles from TSU's Freeman Ranch. I would suspect that I am within .000001% of their average RH.

You're too kind. This helps me a lot. I have planned for a water connect. I have a water conditioner so I'm starting with soft or hard water (choice). Also, I have planned for electrical connections at that location.

I'll check out that humidifier. This forum is awesome, to have someone like you chime in and help solve some problems.

Smooth transition here: I know it's way too soon to be planning the trim-out phase, but scroll up and take another look at the 2" storage shelves. How would those look if faced with wine corks? We have a collection (yes we have other vises) of wine corks. I was thinking about halving corks and facing these ugly shelves. This takes a little imagination but I think you can see it. Also, it would be rainy-day project that we could do ahead of time.

Thanks again for the input.