Where on the political spectrum do you lie? (Mods: Please don't move!)

[reaganyouth84]

I don't think Amanda get's what personal responsibility is. Personal responsibility is taking proper precautions to prevent an unwanted event. Personal responsibility is also taking care of a mistake you could have prevented instead of my tax money going to support your mistake.

I work in a field where I deal with personal irresponsibility on a day to day basis. It costs more money than you can dream of to support these folks.

I am pro-life. There would be no need for us to talk about abortion if people would take personal responsibility into their life.

AMEN!!! I've been in TONS of situations that would have been easy to say, "you know what it, I'm gonna do it even though I know what could happen." I never have though, character is built on things like this. I have friends with babies that were unplanned, and sure the event that led to it was irresponsible, but at least they have stared adversity and public opinion in the eye, and rose to theresponsibility and challenge of supporting another human life.
-Mike

[cigar no baka]

When I say "sterilize the children". I assume we can find some chemical or non-"slice their genitalia up"way to sterilize them. We can put some kind of sterilization chemical in their milk and cool aid at school that lasts long term but not forever.

[cigarsarge]

When I say "sterilize the children". I assume we can find some chemical or non-"slice their genitalia up"way to sterilize them. We can put some kind of sterilization chemical in their milk and cool aid at school that lasts long term but not forever.

How about we just whack their pee-pee?

[reaganyouth84]

How about we just whack their pee-pee?

Hell, the way it's going now, we could just sew their private parts up to look like the Barbie and Ken dolls, because they won't need them with all this cloning and what not. Hell, we are getting so lazy as a race of people that we don't even like to put the energy forth to pro-create, haha.
-Mike

[cigar no baka]

How about we just whack their pee-pee?

Cause it would hurt and all the little boys would sing falsetto. It would ruin rap music for good.

[Iced T]

Last time I checked, there were more people that wanted children than people with unwanted children. There's no solid reason that a woman should have an abortion besides medical reasons. Someone who is past the "personal responsibility" phase (which I agree with) should carry out the pregnancy and either keep the child, or if not able to financially, give up for adoption. I hate the "back-alley abortion" argument because even where abortion is legal, there are incidences of people killing unborn children. This argument says that "they're going to do it whether we like it or not, so we have to make it legal and safe." That's convenient. The death-penalty/abortion comparison isn't even applicable because they are fundamentally different acts. Abortion is the destruction of an unwanted, innocent child at the decision of a mother or father. The death penalty is an action of law taking the life of a convicted murderer, in a society where as an adult, and through trial, it has to be proven that they knew what they did was wrong. "Prohibitions never work." Of course you can never completely eliminate something like alcohol or drug sales/use, but as the definition of a prohibition states, something that "prohibits a certain act or procedure," you are not trying to eliminate something, but legally disapprove or disallow it. (the elimination of something prohibited could be a consequence). As it has been proven by Poland in the years since the fall of the iron curtain (thanks RR), When abortion is criminalized, the demand drastically drops, not increases.

Whatever socioeconomic background these women come from, they'd be far more likely to be substance abusers during their pregnancy, and thus give birth to children with medical and intellectual deficiencies. Alcoholic and drug-addicted mothers that would have otherwise had abortions will bring about a population boom of needy children and will require a huge surge in public spending to finance a lifetime of special education and extensive health care treatment.

One word. Eugenics. This country does not kill children when it is discovered that they are disabled.

"pro-life" ends when the umbilical cord is cut, but I sense many of the penny-pinching, tax-hating ideologues on the front lines of the abortion war believe their commitment ends once the child passes through mama's loins.

I'm sure many people that dislike high taxes (as I) would not be classified as "penny-pinchers." I would also dare to say that many pro-lifers would also not approve of the murder of innocent children outside of "mama's loins." Like I said before, I'm sure that many pro-lifers would be happy to contribute to funds/programs that aided abortion alternatives. As I believe they already do! Something that you didn't mention however is that many pro-abortion advocates, and even some pro-lifers would say that the government has no business in their bodies. I'd have to disagree. When what you do to your body affects a seperate life inside you, some would call that murder. (I wouldn't, but I'm close). Point is, that the government can criminalize something that furthers the destruction of Americans and the American family, like murder, drugs, or abortion.

[reaganyouth84]

Where is hex? This thread needs to be closed FAST!!!
-Mike

[Iced T]

I agree.

[cigar no baka]

Where is hex? This thread needs to be closed FAST!!!
-Mike

Why? This is the politics forum, and I thought it was no holds barred here.

[cigar no baka]

Amanda I can't agree with some of your assumptions. You don't need to lock up women who get abortions. Just criminalize the act of performing an abortion and lock up the back-alley abortionists for 40 years to life and you'd remove a lot of the incentive to perform back-alley abortions.

Second, there are plenty of people dying to adopt who can't get a baby to adopt.

Third, charitable organizations would pick up a lot of the slack, and many people (I for one) would greatly increase my giving to charities that helped place unwanted babies.

[Amanda]

I am fully aware of the definition of personal responsibility. In interpersonal relationships, there is no value more productive in the formation of a well-rounded individual. Good parents will instill the value of personal responsibility in their children, as would teachers in students, preachers to parishioners, social workers to clients, etc., etc. However, an official government position of "personal responsibility" as the lynch pin of a major public policy overhaul is patently worthless.

The scenarios I suggested in my original post on this topic are not "maybes", they are inevitable consequences to prohibitionary policy. If abortion is outlawed, a back-alley abortion black market WILL arise.....new police officers WILL be required to enforce the new prohibition....new bureaucrats WILL have to be hired to process the criminals through the legal system....new prisons WILL have to built to lock up offenders of the prohibition....the number of special-needs children WILL explode if women who fill their bodies with poison are required by law to have their children.....and taxpayers WILL have to foot the bill for the massive expansion of government that comes with prohibition.

If an official government position of "personal responsibility" advocacy is all it takes to reverse supply-and-demand laws, why didn't the government use that line to stop the bootleggers from illegally seizing the liquor industry during alcohol Prohibition? And are you suggesting that if Reagan had cautioned Americans to exercise "personal responsibility" at the very beginning of the war on drugs, the underworld criminal elements that have flourished because of the prohibition would have retreated?

The case I am making about the consequences of a prohibition against abortion is an irrefutable lesson in basic economics that boils down to supply-and-demand. For pro-lifers to counter with the "personal responsibility" talking point is, to put it mildly, comparing apples to oranges. It also tells me just how much (or rather how little) thought pro-life ideologues have given to the pocketbook consequences of the criminalization of abortion they seek. Deluding one's self into believing the financial burden would be zero may help one sleep at night for now.....at least until reality hits and the demand for abortion isn't erased overnight following the collective call from pro-lifers for "personal responsibility."

[cigarsarge]

[QUOTE=Amanda


The case I am making about the consequences of a prohibition against abortion is an irrefutable lesson in basic economics that boils down to supply-and-demand. For pro-lifers to counter with the "personal responsibility" talking point is, to put it mildly, comparing apples to oranges. It also tells me just how much (or rather how little) thought pro-life ideologues have given to the pocketbook consequences of the criminalization of abortion they seek. Deluding one's self into believing the financial burden would be zero may help one sleep at night for now.....at least until reality hits and the demand for abortion isn't erased overnight following the collective call from pro-lifers for "personal responsibility."[/QUOTE]


Amanda...Personal responsibilaty for ones own actions would reap far more financial rewards than the killing of an unborn child. You just don't get it.

I hope life experences will give you the education you need. I hope that when you become a taxpayer instead of a student you will see the light.

I had liberal views at one time of my life. When you join the real world liberalism takes a back seat to reality.