Cigarsmokers.com

**ggiese** · 09-22-2005, 10:41 PM

I've got a LOT to say on this subject... But I'll keep my remarks short and sweet...

Hex - Manix needs to be banned. There are lines that MUST be drawn, else the FRAGILE fabric of this community will be torn. Self-moderation is okay for guys like SFG75 - EXCEPT if he crosses that line....

Comments like Manix's should be treated the MOST harshly. You can have those views - I can try to change your mind, but it appears you're pretty closeminded about it. Well - you post those views on some skinhead/nazi site if you wish - I'm sure they'll appreciate your views - but you DAMN SURE BETTER NOT post that crap here. This board is not designed for those comments, nor should there be any tolerance or support for it. In essence, Manix claims he didn't know what he was writing - well, he damn well better know it was wrong...

SilentChamber - I don't know what your deal is either. You seem to like to involve yourself in controversial threads. You were recently the center of controversy - and you seemed to dislike the attention, yet you focus others on yourself again with your post. Say what you will, you CAN'T justify in any way what Manix said on this board. If you share his views of 1st amendment rights - join him in exile and you two guys can post to your hearts content the BS you wrote above on another site that may tolerate it.

Hex - I join CigarSarge and Hugh Jorgan in STRONGLY calling for the banning of Manix. I know what they essentially wrote in PM to you, and I repeat the exact same sentiments.

I also believe a stern warning needs to be sent to Silent Chamber as well. At this point I don't believe he should be banned, but in my book he's on some very thin ice.

**Bookie** · 09-22-2005, 10:51 PM

I'm not a veteran of the board so take my comments with that in mind.

I was pretty shocked by the inappropriate comments Manix made and it even angered me somewhat. Views like that should be kept to yourself or in a private conversation, if shared at all.

However, since he didn't break a specific board rule at the time other than being extemely insensitive, I'd recommend banning him for a period of time and then allowing him to return if he agrees to play by the rules and offers an apology. Just a thought.

**Corona Gigante** · 09-22-2005, 10:58 PM

What was he thinking? And Seagar "I know what you mean". And The Silent Chamber "What did he do wrong?" Dude, if you don't know, I sure as hell don't have the time or the inclination to clue you in.

My feeling is that these three are young (>25), not particularly well educated, either academically or in "the university of life", and they have a lot of growing up to do before they're ready to eat at the grown-ups' table.

I kind of agree with Hex' first thought. It's not fair to ban someone for breaking a rule that wasn't explicitly in place, no matter how obvious it might be. On the other hand, why not just ban the scumbags? It's not like many people are going to welcome their comments in future. Probably the opposite.

**TheSilentChamber** · 09-22-2005, 11:03 PM

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

What was he thinking? And Seagar "I know what you mean". And The Silent Chamber "What did he do wrong?" Dude, if you don't know, I sure as hell don't have the time or the inclination to clue you in.

My feeling is that these three are young (>25), not particularly well educated, either academically or in "the university of life", and they have a lot of growing up to do before they're ready to eat at the grown-ups' table.

I kind of agree with Hex' first thought. It's not fair to ban someone for breaking a rule that wasn't explicitly in place, no matter how obvious it might be. On the other hand, why not just ban the scumbags? It's not like many people are going to welcome their comments in future. Probably the opposite.

Ok first of all you ridicule me for saying "what did he do wrong" then you go on to say "It's not fair to ban someone for breaking a rule that wasn't explicitly in place". Thats exactly what I was saying.

**hex1848** · 09-22-2005, 11:06 PM

I have to be up at 5:00 AM (it’s almost midnight), drive to Miami and drive back to Tallahassee on Saturday (maybe Sunday). I’m most likely not going to have internet access during my short trip (short as in 8 hours driving each way).

I’m going to do this:

Ban Manix from posting for 7 days, at which point he will be reinstated. If anything remotely similar to this happens again it will be permanent.

**Baron Porthos** · 09-23-2005, 01:07 PM

Originally Posted by hex1848

I have to be up at 5:00 AM (it’s almost midnight), drive to Miami and drive back to Tallahassee on Saturday (maybe Sunday). I’m most likely not going to have internet access during my short trip (short as in 8 hours driving each way).

I’m going to do this:

Ban Manix from posting for 7 days, at which point he will be reinstated. If anything remotely similar to this happens again it will be permanent.

Thank You for taking action while it may not be what I think should be done I'm sure it sends the right message.

**CoventryCat86** · 09-23-2005, 01:32 PM

I'm generally not in favor of members being banned unless the member is nothing but a spammer like Oleg, speaking of which, why isn't that piece of shit Oleg banned anyway? If someone says something out of line then the community deals with it as they see fit.

I used to have nothing against Manix until he said something behind my back about me which he does not have to balls to do in public.

I have absolutely no use for this piece of garbage. I would have supported a temporary suspension of him but now that I know he's attacking me behind my back like a scumbag coward, I must also join those who are calling for a permanent suspension of him. I have NO TOLERANCE for cowards and lowlife's (like Scotty & PuroBrat) who send PMs to people and site admins. and mods. filled with rumor, innuendo and lies which IMO, is far worse that what most of you guys are mad at him for. This guy Manix is bad news until he can genuinely prove otherwise.

I'm not issuing any ultimatums or threats but if this guy is allowed back, you won't see me around here anymore unless this guy apologizes to me PUBLICLY and to the entire community PUBLICLY. Until such time, he should remain permanently banned.

Hey, maybe some of you guys will like it if I leave.......

**Kayakinboy** · 09-23-2005, 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

My feeling is that these three are young (>25), not particularly well educated, either academically or in "the university of life", and they have a lot of growing up to do before they're ready to eat at the grown-ups' table.

While I agree on the fact that studity is being shown, I don't believe age can be called, remeber, I just turned 22.

I'm sure I look bad in the thread before for trying to get him to explain himself, maybe I thought I could talk him into believing something else, fact of the matter is, I don't really care.

Personally, I shoulda ripped him for calling Democrats followers, pretty dumb ass comment if you ask me. If not supporting Bush makes you not American, then I guess I'm from England. You can support your country, your troops, other politicians, without having to back up the president, which his rating has been in a downslide for awhile anyways.

TCMM, however sinful, rude, un-equal, just plain stupid sounding, however you see it, is entitled to his own thoughts and views, but the minute you posted it, you affend, and maybe drove off lurkers wanting to join, by sterotyping them, and saying why you hated them.

How would you feel if I posted why I hated you.

Maybe I hate you because I your views which to me are narrow minded and non-christian. I don't like you because, you sir, are the follower. You followed the views that were shown to you at an early age in life, and stuck by them. You have no real reason to hate african americans (yeah I say african american because it's the correct way to address them) or homo-sexual, or bi's, or jews, or anyone else. In your own post you acted like the fact that your father was Cuban is a bad thing. Your racist aganist your own father?

In my book, I'll never trade/buy/sell anything from you, I don't care WHAT it is. You are done here, you've shown a side you can never take back. Silent Chamber, your next in line man. Are you gunna shake his hand after you go gang up on some "fags"? Makes me sick. Seangar, atleast you stepped up and say sorry. While your views make me sick, I'll get over it, with time.

**nhcigarfan** · 09-23-2005, 08:37 AM

With the internet down at home I clearly missed something. What is the title of the thread.

**Jonsey5484** · 09-23-2005, 08:51 AM

What Manix posted was totally uncalled for. Those views don't belong at this site. Maybe he can join the Nazi/KKK site that ReaganYouth probably belongs to. At least we have a 7 day break from him. Even after he returns I will never be able to believe anything that he has to say. Maybe he will just never return here again. He has branded a name on himself that might never be able to be reversed.

**8-5-8** · 09-23-2005, 09:06 AM

Originally Posted by nhcigarfan

With the internet down at home I clearly missed something. What is the title of the thread.

"I Hate Stupid People" in Politics Forum

**nhcigarfan** · 09-23-2005, 09:28 AM

That was just awful. Manix, keep the free cigars, I covered you on the PIF thread. I am truly sorry you have this much pain and anger in your life. However, I come here to talk cigars, get involved with trades/passes and sometimes discuss sports and the like. I understand you thought your post was "on topic" it was nonetheless extreme distasteful, disturbing and painful. I hope, for your sake, you can eventually come to grips with your anger and overcome it.

**godfather** · 09-23-2005, 01:28 PM

Originally Posted by Kayakinboy

While I agree on the fact that studity is being shown, I don't believe age can be called...

I agree Kayakinboy. Hey Corona, don't sit here and police a thread acting HOLIER than though when you make a comment like you did below. If you ask me, you're guilty too with your 'age discrimination comments' too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discrimination

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

My feeling is that these three are young (>25), not particularly well educated, either academically or in "the university of life", and they have a lot of growing up to do before they're ready to eat at the grown-ups' table.

cigarsarge, thanks for bringing this to our attention, I'm glad you did. I probably wouldn't have seen this if you didn't post your comment.

I personally never knew Manix, nor do I know what it should 'really take' to get banned from a forum. I'll leave that up to the more 'senior members' on here to decide. I do stand by that what Manix did was WRONG. Looking at this from a 'work enviornment' standpoint, they don't tolerate discrimination. He probably would have gotten fired. So I can see why people would be calling for a ban. Personally justifiable.

I think cigarsmokers is a really great community when the 'administrator' of the forum makes a 'fair decision' based on the feedback of other users. After seeing this, and only being here a month, I'm glad to be here and will continue to be here.

**Corona Gigante** · 09-23-2005, 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by Kayakinboy

While I agree on the fact that studity is being shown, I don't believe age can be called, remeber, I just turned 22.

Would it have been better if I'd just called him a "dumb punk kid?"

I was trying to find some mitigating explanation for Mannix' and Seagar's erroneous views. My strong belief is that fear arises from ignorance and hatred arises from fear. I attributed their ignorance to lack of life experience, which tends to be more common in young people than in older people, for obvious reasons. This isn't to say that all young people are lacking in life experience, still less that all young people are stupid.

What I was trying, obviously very clumsily, to say is that these kind of opinions are more excusable in young people than in older people, because there's more chance that they'll change their opinions as they grow up.

**SuperChuck** · 09-23-2005, 02:48 PM

There's a cool quote out there that I'm really too lazy to look up... I want to attribute it to Thomas Jefferson, but I might be off on that, as well.

To paraquote:
Freedom of speech is not intended to protect you, it's meant to protect the other guy.

We're so used to thinking of freedom of speech as something to protect us, we often lose sight that it's really intended to protect the guy we don't agree with. I think it's one of the hardest things to do, and kind of the truest tests of freedom, to let other people have opinions that are counter to yours.

That said, I don't agree with a word Manix said. In fact, I just stopped reading that thread entirely. I didn't want to hear his explanation, I didn't want to hear the bickering which resulted. I have no tolerance for racism or bigotry of any sort.

Eh, he thought he was on topic, he spoke his mind, and the good people of this forum let him know his particular breed of hate has no place in this forum. If he'd like to talk about cigars, I'm fine with that. If he wants to hatemonger, well, that's unacceptable (to me).

**TheVitaleMob** · 09-23-2005, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by SuperChuck

Eh, he thought he was on topic, he spoke his mind,

I thought that it was pretty clear when I started the original thread that i was expessing my day in a comical fashion, NOT SERIOUS. The first few replys on that thread show me that this was understood. I have no idea how manix could have thought that the thread was open for racist/etc. comments. Rest assured, I won't be opening any more cans of worms anymore for awhile. Back to the Q&As. I really feel kind of responsible for giving manix an opportunity. I do believe however, that he should be banned, Spreading racist comments is worse than spamming in my book.

PS-- I usually look at the board once a day, so i usually miss the conversations, but I chime in when I can.

**Kayakinboy** · 09-23-2005, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Would it have been better if I'd just called him a "dumb punk kid?"

I was trying to find some mitigating explanation for Mannix' and Seagar's erroneous views. My strong belief is that fear arises from ignorance and hatred arises from fear. I attributed their ignorance to lack of life experience, which tends to be more common in young people than in older people, for obvious reasons. This isn't to say that all young people are lacking in life experience, still less that all young people are stupid.

What I was trying, obviously very clumsily, to say is that these kind of opinions are more excusable in young people than in older people, because there's more chance that they'll change their opinions as they grow up.

CG, I meant nothing towards you. TCMM and SC (And I don't mean SamClemmons) are racists biggiots, atleast, IMHO.

**Kayakinboy** · 09-23-2005, 03:26 PM

And as for freedom of speech, I believe it insures you the right to say what you want, without starting violence, which, I'm pretty keen to violence now that we are calling people racists terms!

**cigarsarge** · 09-23-2005, 05:06 PM

Folks...I respect hex's decision. It is his board and he can do what he wants with it. I hold no hard feelings toward him. I do in fact disagree with his seven day suspension.

I think Manix should be banned period. Therefore I am leaving. Manix and his buddy TSC are poor examples for the rest of the board. Their true colors have shown through.

I wish all the BOTLs I have met here well. I post regularly on another board...Most of you know which one. You can find me there if you feel the need.