Cigarsmokers.com

**SuperChuck** · 09-23-2005, 02:48 PM

There's a cool quote out there that I'm really too lazy to look up... I want to attribute it to Thomas Jefferson, but I might be off on that, as well.

To paraquote:
Freedom of speech is not intended to protect you, it's meant to protect the other guy.

We're so used to thinking of freedom of speech as something to protect us, we often lose sight that it's really intended to protect the guy we don't agree with. I think it's one of the hardest things to do, and kind of the truest tests of freedom, to let other people have opinions that are counter to yours.

That said, I don't agree with a word Manix said. In fact, I just stopped reading that thread entirely. I didn't want to hear his explanation, I didn't want to hear the bickering which resulted. I have no tolerance for racism or bigotry of any sort.

Eh, he thought he was on topic, he spoke his mind, and the good people of this forum let him know his particular breed of hate has no place in this forum. If he'd like to talk about cigars, I'm fine with that. If he wants to hatemonger, well, that's unacceptable (to me).

**Kayakinboy** · 09-23-2005, 03:24 PM

Originally Posted by Corona Gigante

Would it have been better if I'd just called him a "dumb punk kid?"

I was trying to find some mitigating explanation for Mannix' and Seagar's erroneous views. My strong belief is that fear arises from ignorance and hatred arises from fear. I attributed their ignorance to lack of life experience, which tends to be more common in young people than in older people, for obvious reasons. This isn't to say that all young people are lacking in life experience, still less that all young people are stupid.

What I was trying, obviously very clumsily, to say is that these kind of opinions are more excusable in young people than in older people, because there's more chance that they'll change their opinions as they grow up.

CG, I meant nothing towards you. TCMM and SC (And I don't mean SamClemmons) are racists biggiots, atleast, IMHO.

**Kayakinboy** · 09-23-2005, 03:26 PM

And as for freedom of speech, I believe it insures you the right to say what you want, without starting violence, which, I'm pretty keen to violence now that we are calling people racists terms!

**SuperChuck** · 09-23-2005, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by Kayakinboy

And as for freedom of speech, I believe it insures you the right to say what you want, without starting violence

I wouldn't necesarily use that definition... Martin Luther King, Jr. started a lot of violence, but I certainly believe he had a right to say what he wanted to say.

**basil** · 09-23-2005, 04:02 PM

Like CC said earlier, there are plenty of good reasons to be rid of this POS asshole. As I said, he's a liar, he's a cheat, and he has no regard for anyone on here except himself, and probably a pretty low regard at that. Over and over, he demonstrates an innate cynicism when not only does he hump legs, he humps the whole goddamn board. His racism is only the tip of the iceburg for this imposter con artist. He posted pics of his son. What a tragedy that that kid has such a lowlife for a role model. Good fucking riddance.

**TheVitaleMob** · 09-23-2005, 04:45 PM

Originally Posted by SuperChuck

Eh, he thought he was on topic, he spoke his mind,

I thought that it was pretty clear when I started the original thread that i was expessing my day in a comical fashion, NOT SERIOUS. The first few replys on that thread show me that this was understood. I have no idea how manix could have thought that the thread was open for racist/etc. comments. Rest assured, I won't be opening any more cans of worms anymore for awhile. Back to the Q&As. I really feel kind of responsible for giving manix an opportunity. I do believe however, that he should be banned, Spreading racist comments is worse than spamming in my book.

PS-- I usually look at the board once a day, so i usually miss the conversations, but I chime in when I can.

**cigarsarge** · 09-23-2005, 05:06 PM

Folks...I respect hex's decision. It is his board and he can do what he wants with it. I hold no hard feelings toward him. I do in fact disagree with his seven day suspension.

I think Manix should be banned period. Therefore I am leaving. Manix and his buddy TSC are poor examples for the rest of the board. Their true colors have shown through.

I wish all the BOTLs I have met here well. I post regularly on another board...Most of you know which one. You can find me there if you feel the need.

**superman78** · 09-23-2005, 05:18 PM

If that s how you feel ,I respect your decision.Sad to lose you,losing a good BOTL because of a few ignorant punks.

**godfather** · 09-23-2005, 06:33 PM

Hex I sent you a PM. Please check it. Thanks!

**Kayakinboy** · 09-23-2005, 06:48 PM

Originally Posted by cigarsarge

Folks...I respect hex's decision. It is his board and he can do what he wants with it. I hold no hard feelings toward him. I do in fact disagree with his seven day suspension.

I think Manix should be banned period. Therefore I am leaving. Manix and his buddy TSC are poor examples for the rest of the board. Their true colors have shown through.

I wish all the BOTLs I have met here well. I post regularly on another board...Most of you know which one. You can find me there if you feel the need.

**TheVitaleMob** · 09-23-2005, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by godfather

Hex I sent you a PM. Please check it. Thanks!

Not sure, but I think Hex said he would be away for the weekend

**thepyrofish** · 09-23-2005, 10:31 PM

Sarge, I am truly sorry to see you go, but I do know where else you spend your time and I'll be around. Vaya con dios*

*or your conscience or what have you.

**samclemmons** · 09-23-2005, 11:49 PM

Bill and George and that kayakinkid too. If you guys stay on this board it means you condone the actions of Hex with regards to the "stupid people" thread. You know that mannix should be banned and since he hasn't been you all need to leave here.

Time to set sail fella's. I won't be back regardless of what is done from here on out.

NA

**Shagaroo** · 09-23-2005, 11:58 PM

I have to disagree with the auto-bailing on the forum. We pummled Hex pretty good demanding a self moderated forum. Told him long bedtime stories how thread deletion and member banning would send this forum into a fiery, hellish abyss and provided links to the Island as proof. Now, he doesn't jump in and perma-ban someone from the get go and everyone wants to bail on him. You can't blame him for being a little gunshy about just jumping in and perma-banning someone after the shit we tossed on the wall claiming banning people would kill his forum. Now this happens as he is about to leave town and we want perfect forum moderation instantly. I think folks should just calm down and see how it plays out.

**Roham** · 09-24-2005, 02:36 AM

Originally Posted by Shagaroo

I have to disagree with the auto-bailing on the forum. We pummled Hex pretty good demanding a self moderated forum. Told him long bedtime stories how thread deletion and member banning would send this forum into a fiery, hellish abyss and provided links to the Island as proof. Now, he doesn't jump in and perma-ban someone from the get go and everyone wants to bail on him. You can't blame him for being a little gunshy about just jumping in and perma-banning someone after the shit we tossed on the wall claiming banning people would kill his forum. Now this happens as he is about to leave town and we want perfect forum moderation instantly. I think folks should just calm down and see how it plays out.

I agree, what happened to self moderation???

That's lame bailing on the forum, it's not Hex's fault nor is it cigarsmokers.com.

Self moderation means making Manix feel so unwelcome he won't want to come back, sort of like what happened with SFG, no?

**prophetic_joe** · 09-24-2005, 05:00 AM

new guy here and i'm sure my opinion doesn't count but i agree with roham and shag. bailing is lame, it's a self governing forum site and we should just all ban together to make sure he leaves. you know they say rat are the first to leave a sinking ship and while what i've seen from you guys so far makes me believe you're cool i believe every good member should stay and try to fix the leak created by TCMM.

in a way i agree with seegar. 20% good 80% bad but my feeling is that this is the ratio amongst every race. people in general suck but, Sarge. SC I think you 2 are members of the 20%. that 20% however needs to stick around and get rid of the 80%

**Seagar** · 09-24-2005, 08:49 AM

Hey Corona Gigante, thanks for continuously throwing me under the bus.
Ill admit this was probably the wrong place to express my opinion. Ever since something kinda personal happened I have always had that view in my head though.

**CoventryCat86** · 09-24-2005, 01:40 PM

The self-moderated forum thing is a great idea but there are way too many people who feel Manix went SO FAR over the line, they don't want to have anything to do with a forum that he's allowed to participate in. It would be on thing if a couple of clueless newbie who like to think they know it all drew this line in the sand but when many standup, experienced guys like SamClemmons, Hugh Jorgan, cigarsarge and ggiese feel this strongly insisting on a permanent ban then it has to make us all wonder.

I have quite a few issues with this guy. First off, I don't think he has any clue how out of line he was and continues to be. Instead of a permanent ban, I think he should be given a lenghty suspension, something on the order of six months at least and once he's had a good long time to let his unacceptable behavior sink in, he should come back and sincerely apologize to the community immediately. I'm pretty sure that the veterans are fairly sure of themselves that Manix will only continue to be trouble if he's allowed back (just like Barney on CigarPass

).

One week is way too short of a period of time for a ban on this guy considering the degree of his transgressions.

**QuietC** · 09-24-2005, 02:25 PM

I'd hate to see a bunch of good guys leave this forum. I'd hope that most of you would atleast wait until Hex has time to get back from his weekend trip before deciding to leave here for good.