Middle east outcome

[Shelby07]

[QUOTE=SuperChuck]No fair editing posts while I'm replying...

That's largely a generalization. Your average guy on the street wants to make a decent living, feed his family, raise his kids. It's the leaders and radicals you have to look out for. It's a little like saying everyone south of the Mason-Dixon is racist and in the KKK. That's really a minority, but they're loud...
QUOTE]

I understand what you are saying, but I see it differently. Hatred of different races and religions is rampant in the middle east. Children are educated at home and in schools to hate other cultures even in their own country because they are not of the "God chosen" religion or ethnicity. Our culture downplays religion when it comes to social interaction with others, but in the middle east religion is the driving force of everything they do. And war is not a concept that has never been experienced in their homeland, it is something that has always been a part of their current life or recent history. I think that's what we sometimes fail to understand. I don't believe we can put ourselves in the average Joe's shoes, nor can we expect that they are thinking the same way we are. Hatred of other cultures and races is a normal part of their everyday life, much as the natural (at the time) hatred and resentment that existed between blacks and whites in this country during reconstruction.

[WhiteWidow]

The reason they hate everyone so much is what in psychology is a called a "reaction complex." Basically, since everything over there is so crappy, they project the blame for their situation on someone else. The west "stole" our riches from them. Throughout history, Jews have usually been smarter and more successful than other cultures, starting banks, businesses, etc., as a result this jealousy has cause many groups, not just Muslims, to hate them.

[SmokinDVM]

The reason they hate everyone so much is what in psychology is a called a "reaction complex." Basically, since everything over there is so crappy, they project the blame for their situation on someone else. The west "stole" our riches from them. Throughout history, Jews have usually been smarter and more successful than other cultures, starting banks, businesses, etc., as a result this jealousy has cause many groups, not just Muslims, to hate them.

That, quite possibly, is the most racist thing I've seen posted just about anywhere.

[WhiteWidow]

Its not racist. People have been jealous of Jews throughout recorded history as a result of their many accomplishments, perfecting a banking system 2,000 years ago just being one of them.

[bigpoppapuff]

The reason they hate everyone so much is what in psychology is a called a "reaction complex." Basically, since everything over there is so crappy, they project the blame for their situation on someone else. The west "stole" our riches from them. Throughout history, Jews have usually been smarter and more successful than other cultures, starting banks, businesses, etc., as a result this jealousy has cause many groups, not just Muslims, to hate them.

you,among them,perhaps??....

[WhiteWidow]

What does that mean?

If you're implying that I hate Jews, please explain how complimenting them makes that true. They've done many great things throughout history, for which they should be commended. I think this is why they have gotten so much crap from so many people over thousands of years - jealousy, or, as I said before, a "reaction complex."

[Kenyth]

I'm all against racism, but you guys are taking WW's statement out of context. An objective comment on the successes or shortcomings of a culture aren't really racist, but they can easily become so.

[SuperChuck]

Throughout history, Jews have usually been smarter and more successful than other cultures, starting banks, businesses, etc., as a result this jealousy has cause many groups, not just Muslims, to hate them.

There's no smiley for "you got it right on the nose" (although I suppose that smiley would look more like a field sobriety test)...

(Actually, that may be the smartest thing said in this thread)

Jews in Medieval Europe created a great economic "empire" for themselves. The majority of their success came from being outsiders (sorry, not because they were necessarily smarter) and were able to do business freely. Basically, if were were from country A, you did business in country A and hate the people from country B; being outsiders with no allegiances, Jews did business in countries A, B, and C.

As WW points out, people hated their success. The German city states in particular are famous for gathering up as many copies of the Talmud (the Jewish book of law) and burning them in public. This hatred never really died out and, hundreds of years later, Hitler revived the book burning.

If you ever get the chance to, take a medieval history course. It's really amazing how much of European history goes back to the middle ages and before.

Edit: I don't think calling the Jews smart and successful is racist (hell, it sounds like a compliment to me).

[Shagaroo]

Edit: I don't think calling the Jews smart and successful is racist (hell, it sounds like a compliment to me).

Of course it's not racist, but playing the "you're a racist" card is bait when trying to incite a flame war...

[WhiteWidow]

I think SC explained what I was trying to say a little better.

[SmokinDVM]

Of course it's not racist, but playing the "you're a racist" card is bait when trying to incite a flame war...

Actually it is a racist statement.

Just as racist as somebody saying black guys are hated only because they have bigger dicks.
Just because you try to sugar coat the remark, doesn't make it any less racist.

It was not meant to start a flame war, but to point out the lack of historical knowledge as to the deep-seated hatred of jews by certain cultures.

SuperChuck filled in the details for him quite well, however much nicer than I would have.

It was a stereotypical racist comment, and whether from ignorance or not, still racist.

[Kenyth]

Actually it is a racist statement.

Just as racist as somebody saying black guys are hated only because they have bigger dicks.
Just because you try to sugar coat the remark, doesn't make it any less racist.

It was not meant to start a flame war, but to point out the lack of historical knowledge as to the deep-seated hatred of jews by certain cultures.

SuperChuck filled in the details for him quite well, however much nicer than I would have.

It was a stereotypical racist comment, and whether from ignorance or not, still racist.

"Racist" is slung around a bit too liberally these days in my opinion. You can't completely ignore different physical traits and cultures. That in itself, should be an insult. You just can't use racial or cultural differences to "discriminate". Granted, the perception of discrimination and racism is given to a lot of subjective definition. A comment that obviously shows someone to negatively discriminate against certain physical, religious or cultural differences should be labeled as racist. To curtail someones right to objectively discuss different people and cultures under threat of being accused of racism is just as bad as bigotry. It stifles education and free expression as much as the bigotry it's meant to prevent. When I say that in my opinion, the Egyptians were master stoneworkers because they built the pyramids, I don't expect (and refuse to) be labeled the racist bigot. White Widow was trying to express that he felt the Jewish culture and history showed a strong aptitude for financial prowess, and that he felt their success was a reason they were targetted for hatred. Right or wrong, it's not racism. I feel from my experience, that the hispanic culture fosters a better work ethic than the average American. Does that make me racist?

[SmokinDVM]

"Racist" is slung around a bit too liberally these days in my opinion. You can't completely ignore different phsical traits and cultures. That in itself, should be an insult. You just can't use racial or cultural differences to "discriminate". Granted, the percetion of discrimination and racism is given to a lot of subjective definition. A comment that obviously shows someone to negatively disciminate against certain physical, religious or cultural differences should be labeled as racist. To curtail someones right to objectively discuss different people and cultures under threat of being accused of racism is just as bad as bigotry. It stifles education and free expression as much as the bigotry it's meant to prevent. When I say that in my opinion, the Egyptians were master stoneworkers because they built the pyramids, I don't expect (and refuse to) be labeled the racist bigot. White Widow was trying to express that he felt the Jewish culture and history showed a strong aptitude for financial prowess, and that he felt their success was a reason they were targetted for hatred. Right or wrong, it's not racism. I feel from my experience, that the hispanic culture fosters a better work ethic than the average American. Does that make me racist?

Saying that a specific culture fosters a better work ethic, is different than saying that members of a particular religion have a genetic predisposition for financial prowess.
One is an, at least, arguable position, the other is an ignorant statement.