Go, Willie!

[BigMacFU]

Baka, I don't buy that logic because it cannot be applied universally. Murder/genocide was built into the social contract of the Weimer Republic as reprehensible. Didn't matter though did it, and Hitler legalized it. The majority of people were cool with it. So, it was right for Hitler to legalize it, and anytime the majority of people start committing a specific crime, we should legalize it.

My guess is that more people cheat on their taxes than smoke weed. So, by your logic, let's legalize cheating on taxes. More people steal in this country than smoke weed, so let's legalize it.

If you don't believe the number of people who steal I cite a few things: 1) Ask any internal auditor at a company about legitimate employee expenses , 2) ask any lawyer whether or not a 15 minute phone call counts as a billable hour, 3) ask how many people have tried the grapes at a grocery store before buying the bag. Yet, no one really considers these things "bad," they do them willingly, knowingly, and many even smile.

Edit: Forgot to add Drunk Driving, Speeding, Jay-Walking, etc...

Finally, if that's not enough to convince you, I give you slavery!!! The majority of people in our country considered it perfectly fine, they owned slaves willingly and knowingly. Yet, while the majority of people in this country still owned slaves, the federal government sought to make it illegal. Now, the civil war was the result of many things, but according to your logic, slavery should have stayed legal.

The question shouldn't be, how many are doing it that grants its legality, it should be, what kind of effect does this have on our society? And ask anyone in general if they're pro-doping away all of our problems, be they through "legal" pharma-coms or illegal drugs?

As I wrote earlier, I'm against all types of doping, be they "legal" or illegal. Unless there really is some crazy chemical imbalance in your body that cannot be regulated with supplements, and your kid really is overactive (and not because you've used the TV to babysit them up till this point, thus teaching them no attention span and giving them no physical energy outlet), then the govt. should prevent it all. Personally, I'd like to see the government go after the pharma-coms more than the do mary jane pushers.

[cigar no baka]

Baka, I don't buy that logic because it cannot be applied universally. Murder/genocide was built into the social contract of the Weimer Republic as reprehensible. Didn't matter though did it, and Hitler legalized it. The majority of people were cool with it. So, it was right for Hitler to legalize it, and anytime the majority of people start committing a specific crime, we should legalize it.

My guess is that more people cheat on their taxes than smoke weed. So, by your logic, let's legalize cheating on taxes. More people steal in this country than smoke weed, so let's legalize it.

If you don't believe the number of people who steal I cite a few things: 1) Ask any internal auditor at a company about legitimate employee expenses , 2) ask any lawyer whether or not a 15 minute phone call counts as a billable hour, 3) ask how many people have tried the grapes at a grocery store before buying the bag. Yet, no one really considers these things "bad," they do them willingly, knowingly, and many even smile.

Edit: Forgot to add Drunk Driving, Speeding, Jay-Walking, etc...

Finally, if that's not enough to convince you, I give you slavery!!! The majority of people in our country considered it perfectly fine, they owned slaves willingly and knowingly. Yet, while the majority of people in this country still owned slaves, the federal government sought to make it illegal. Now, the civil war was the result of many things, but according to your logic, slavery should have stayed legal.

The question shouldn't be, how many are doing it that grants its legality, it should be, what kind of effect does this have on our society? And ask anyone in general if they're pro-doping away all of our problems, be they through "legal" pharma-coms or illegal drugs?

As I wrote earlier, I'm against all types of doping, be they "legal" or illegal. Unless there really is some crazy chemical imbalance in your body that cannot be regulated with supplements, and your kid really is overactive (and not because you've used the TV to babysit them up till this point, thus teaching them no attention span and giving them no physical energy outlet), then the govt. should prevent it all. Personally, I'd like to see the government go after the pharma-coms more than the do mary jane pushers.

I see your point, but there are victims in all of the crimes you listed above. Where are the victims in drug use, specifically weed? I can take mind altering substances such as alcohol and damage myself, as long as I cause no damage to others, correct? So why can I not do so with other mind-altering substances? The benefit of banning such behavior far, far outweighs the costs. And remember, I am only speaking about weed, which is far less insidious and not addictive like drugs such as coke, heroin, etc.

[cinda]

A law is only as good as the people who uphold it.

A more common quote: A lock door keeps honest people out....

[SmokinDVM]

What we have here is some interesting hypocritical opinions.
Everyone wants to keep their drug of choice (nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, whatever) legal, while punishing everyone else for using their drug of choice.

[BigMacFU]

As for drug use not hurting anyone, that's arguable, even with weed. But, we don't even need to go that far. The stealing doesn't technically hurt anyone, jay walking doesn't hurt anyone, speeding doesn't hurt anyone. It's only when these things go wrong that they hurt people. So, just like weed, these things aren't bad because in most cases they hurt no one. If every time somebody sped or jay walked they'd be hurt, we'd all be dead in this country.

As for DVM's point, he has a point, we all want certain "drugs" to stay legal while others do not (I don't think alcohol should be illegal, but believe pot should, caffeine as an additive too probably, most pharma-com "well-being" drugs, etc...). Is this hypocritical? Maybe, if we all end up being wrong about this issue and come to find it is a black and white issue, not a grey issue, then it is hypocritical. If it is a grey issue though, it's not hypocritical, it's just trying to find our best way through the fog.

As for Wise's idea that punishing and fines haven't worked yet, then we should never make anything illegal, in fact, eliminate any idea of punishment or social/civic justice because there has not been one society to ever be completely free of crime. Therefore, no punishment works, so why punish anything at all.

I'm not saying the solution to this problem is easy, I don't think we're all going to agree. I just want to make sure that whatever side you fall on, you're logically valid even within your own premises.

[SmokinDVM]

Who does weed hurt?
Stealing hurts people by depriving them of personal property.
Jay-walking hurts people by causing accidents. Speeding the same.
Weed only makes people want to call the pizza guy. Besides, the real problem with marijuana prohibition is the drastically disproportionate severity of the penalty when compared to the crime. When we take a look at the lack of crimes or accidents where marijuana use is actually involved, it makes no sense to jail, and otherwise fuck up the rest of someones life over it.

Possession or use of any drug should not be illegal. Driving under the influence...illegal. Why, because it potentially endangers someone elses life.

[BigMacFU]

Edit: Totally forgot and haven't seen anyone mention this, but... Barry, this is a neo-con position you know. Granted it's been around with libertarians and other non-official party types. You my friend are surfin' in pure neo-con bliss on this one. Sorry, though it was funny. Not saying you can't hold this view because of that, just noting your bed fellows.

You said any drug. What about the hallucinogenic drugs that cause people to freak out and get violent on a consistent basis?

As for weed, does it cause damage, yes, ask people who run companies what happens to employees and their abilities that consistently smoke weed, look at statistics for driving under the influence of weed.

Percentage wise, more people speed and less people get hurt than people smoke and people get hurt. How is this true, anything over the limit, including 1 MPH is speeding, this occurs all the time, statistically if someone wanted to figure it out, I'm sure speeding is one of the least lethal things in the world. Sure, when something does go wrong, it usually goes pretty darn wrong. But, the majority of the time, nothing goes wrong, yet speeding is illegal in every case.

The question of enforcement is an whole other deal. Just ask the Netherlands, technically pot is illegal in all but one way (I believe consuming), to sell or purchase though I believe is illegal. The law is really funky whatever it may be. Either way, clearly the law isn't enforced. Just like jaywalking. I'm not saying let's just ignore it as if it were legal.

If you really think drug prohibition/allowance is a black and white issue, then I just won't agree, because I don't think all drugs should be legal, nor should they be all illegal. If that makes me a hypocrite in your view that's fine, I just find one of your premises false and so it doesn't matter to me.

As I wrote very early on, I'm against the numbing of our country through any type of mental anesthetic (not using the word technically), why, because I don't care to watch our society sink itself even further into its own hole. Terrorists and other countries would love to see this happen. Get a society hopped up enough on the right stuff, it's easy to control them, either through propaganda or force. And these terrorists could be our very own politicians or media conglomerates who want to control our every move that they may retain their power and wealth. Only way to fight the power is to be vigilant, and that ain't gonna happen if we buy into the corporate (formerly hippie) sentiment that it's okay to fight/ignore problems by doping them away. (hippies thought they were fighting the power by smoking up, but that didn't produce anything, clearly the problems of the 60's and 70's in govt./society still plague us today, thus I consider the doping effect to have effectively ignored attaining any solution).