Go, Willie!

[SmokinDVM]

What we have here is some interesting hypocritical opinions.
Everyone wants to keep their drug of choice (nicotine, alcohol, caffeine, whatever) legal, while punishing everyone else for using their drug of choice.

[BigMacFU]

As for drug use not hurting anyone, that's arguable, even with weed. But, we don't even need to go that far. The stealing doesn't technically hurt anyone, jay walking doesn't hurt anyone, speeding doesn't hurt anyone. It's only when these things go wrong that they hurt people. So, just like weed, these things aren't bad because in most cases they hurt no one. If every time somebody sped or jay walked they'd be hurt, we'd all be dead in this country.

As for DVM's point, he has a point, we all want certain "drugs" to stay legal while others do not (I don't think alcohol should be illegal, but believe pot should, caffeine as an additive too probably, most pharma-com "well-being" drugs, etc...). Is this hypocritical? Maybe, if we all end up being wrong about this issue and come to find it is a black and white issue, not a grey issue, then it is hypocritical. If it is a grey issue though, it's not hypocritical, it's just trying to find our best way through the fog.

As for Wise's idea that punishing and fines haven't worked yet, then we should never make anything illegal, in fact, eliminate any idea of punishment or social/civic justice because there has not been one society to ever be completely free of crime. Therefore, no punishment works, so why punish anything at all.

I'm not saying the solution to this problem is easy, I don't think we're all going to agree. I just want to make sure that whatever side you fall on, you're logically valid even within your own premises.

[SmokinDVM]

Who does weed hurt?
Stealing hurts people by depriving them of personal property.
Jay-walking hurts people by causing accidents. Speeding the same.
Weed only makes people want to call the pizza guy. Besides, the real problem with marijuana prohibition is the drastically disproportionate severity of the penalty when compared to the crime. When we take a look at the lack of crimes or accidents where marijuana use is actually involved, it makes no sense to jail, and otherwise fuck up the rest of someones life over it.

Possession or use of any drug should not be illegal. Driving under the influence...illegal. Why, because it potentially endangers someone elses life.

[BigMacFU]

Edit: Totally forgot and haven't seen anyone mention this, but... Barry, this is a neo-con position you know. Granted it's been around with libertarians and other non-official party types. You my friend are surfin' in pure neo-con bliss on this one. Sorry, though it was funny. Not saying you can't hold this view because of that, just noting your bed fellows.

You said any drug. What about the hallucinogenic drugs that cause people to freak out and get violent on a consistent basis?

As for weed, does it cause damage, yes, ask people who run companies what happens to employees and their abilities that consistently smoke weed, look at statistics for driving under the influence of weed.

Percentage wise, more people speed and less people get hurt than people smoke and people get hurt. How is this true, anything over the limit, including 1 MPH is speeding, this occurs all the time, statistically if someone wanted to figure it out, I'm sure speeding is one of the least lethal things in the world. Sure, when something does go wrong, it usually goes pretty darn wrong. But, the majority of the time, nothing goes wrong, yet speeding is illegal in every case.

The question of enforcement is an whole other deal. Just ask the Netherlands, technically pot is illegal in all but one way (I believe consuming), to sell or purchase though I believe is illegal. The law is really funky whatever it may be. Either way, clearly the law isn't enforced. Just like jaywalking. I'm not saying let's just ignore it as if it were legal.

If you really think drug prohibition/allowance is a black and white issue, then I just won't agree, because I don't think all drugs should be legal, nor should they be all illegal. If that makes me a hypocrite in your view that's fine, I just find one of your premises false and so it doesn't matter to me.

As I wrote very early on, I'm against the numbing of our country through any type of mental anesthetic (not using the word technically), why, because I don't care to watch our society sink itself even further into its own hole. Terrorists and other countries would love to see this happen. Get a society hopped up enough on the right stuff, it's easy to control them, either through propaganda or force. And these terrorists could be our very own politicians or media conglomerates who want to control our every move that they may retain their power and wealth. Only way to fight the power is to be vigilant, and that ain't gonna happen if we buy into the corporate (formerly hippie) sentiment that it's okay to fight/ignore problems by doping them away. (hippies thought they were fighting the power by smoking up, but that didn't produce anything, clearly the problems of the 60's and 70's in govt./society still plague us today, thus I consider the doping effect to have effectively ignored attaining any solution).

[cinda]

Telling people they can not do something that they feel doesn't hurt anyone put themselves only makes them more proficient at hiding their behavior . It also creates tighter bonds and deeper secrets with the people making it all possible. The same people that are making all the money, and as you move up that ladder of secrets, ending in the same countries that we blame lots of our problems. The world you're so afraid of is all ready here. People are all ready knee deep in prescription drugs helping them cope with reality. The reality that the media on a daily bases keeps pumping into our heads desensitizing us right to the bone. I need to stop... anyhow it is not up to me so you do not have to worry. Willie keep singing!!!!!!!

[SmokinDVM]

I think it would be more a Libertarian view than neo-con. The neo-cons are staunchly against any legalization of marijuana, or any other "drug", including for medicinal use.
You'd be surprised by many of my political views. I'm also a gun owner, and am against most laws regulating ownership and use. I have several others, most of which can be attributed to my being raised, and living most of my life, in the Midwest.

Anyway, having some intimate knowledge of controlled substances, both from professional and personal experience, I find most of the hype and propoganda pushed by the Government/DEA to be complete bullshit. I know MANY professionals, in varied fields, who are regular users of marijuana. They continue to excell in their respective careers.

Let's look at the Netherlands and their treatment of marijuana as an example of harm reduction when sensible laws are in place. Marijuana use is actually lower than in the U.S.
LINK

Don't get me wrong, their are some really nasty drugs out there, but their prohibition, and the "War on Drugs", don't help, and there's ample evidence showing that it actually increases use.
Make the problem a social one, not legal, and stop disrupting the lives of innocent people unnecessarily.

At least stop fucking with old hippies.

[BigMacFU]

It was my understanding that neo-cons were the south park republicans, the new generation, literally, of republicans. Not those in power right now, but the 18-35 year olds who are not in power but are voters. And, according to most 18-35 repubs, these neo-cons, they want marijuana legalized. The "neo-cons" who are in power now I really don't consider "neo," they aren't all that different from 80's repubs or 90's repubs.

My point about employee ability with mary jane is not to be taken by the stand out cases of those who have resistance or a body that isn't easily affected. I had many friends who were fine mentally while high. On the other hand, I had many more friends who could barely lift a finger except to reach for taco bell. Point is, I wouldn't want my surgery being performed by a high doctor. I don't want my finances done by a high accountant. Not because there doesn't exist anyone who can do these things perfectly well under the influence, but because I don't have the time to check everybody out I deal with every day. This problem becomes exacerbated with driving under the influence, especially because there is no such thing as a mary jane breathalyzer.

BTW, you sound less and less democrat with every post now Barry, so quit rooting for them and start rooting for independents and libertarians, you sound a lot more like Goldwater than you do Feinstein.

[cinda]

It was my understanding that Noe-cons were the south park republicans, the new generation, literally, of republicans. Not those in power right now, but the 18-35 year olds who are not in power but are voters. And, according to most 18-35 repubs, these neo-cons, they want marijuana legalized. The "neo-cons" who are in power now I really don't consider "neo," they aren't all that different from 80's repubs or W's repubs.

My point about employee ability with mary jane is not to be taken by the stand out cases of those who have resistance or a body that isn't easily affected. I had many friends who were fine mentally while high. On the other hand, I had many more friends who could barely lift a finger except to reach for taco bell. Point is, I wouldn't want my surgery being performed by a high doctor. I don't want my finances done by a high accountant. Not because there doesn't exist anyone who can do these things perfectly well under the influence, but because I don't have the time to check everybody out I deal with every day. This problem becomes exacerbated with driving under the influence, especially because there is no such thing as a mary jane breathalyzer.

BTW, you sound less and less democrat with every post now Barry, so quit rooting for them and start rooting for independents and libertarians, you sound a lot more like Goldwater than you do Einstein.

Don't you still run the risk of a drunk doctor, a drunk accountant and so on? How about your Doc's prescription sleep aide doesn't wear off before he begins surgery? We could go on and on and on the bottom line is someone pick out the "bad drugs" and said they were illegal. My guess is a group of men who decided that somehow they could make more money if certain drugs were illegal. Trust me this is all about money. The best thing about testing someone for marijuana is it is a fat soluble drug. That mean it stores in your fat cells and can remain in your body up to six months! I am sure your Doctor pee test will show how unfit he is for surgery. However, if he is with-drawing from alcohol poisoning you know the sweats the shakes etc. you know the only drug that with-drawing from can kill you. Well luck will have it that he will show up drug free and ready for your operation! Now hold still!

[SmokinDVM]

It was my understanding that neo-cons were the south park republicans, the new generation, literally, of republicans. Not those in power right now, but the 18-35 year olds who are not in power but are voters. And, according to most 18-35 repubs, these neo-cons, they want marijuana legalized. The "neo-cons" who are in power now I really don't consider "neo," they aren't all that different from 80's repubs or 90's repubs.

My point about employee ability with mary jane is not to be taken by the stand out cases of those who have resistance or a body that isn't easily affected. I had many friends who were fine mentally while high. On the other hand, I had many more friends who could barely lift a finger except to reach for taco bell. Point is, I wouldn't want my surgery being performed by a high doctor. I don't want my finances done by a high accountant. Not because there doesn't exist anyone who can do these things perfectly well under the influence, but because I don't have the time to check everybody out I deal with every day. This problem becomes exacerbated with driving under the influence, especially because there is no such thing as a mary jane breathalyzer.

BTW, you sound less and less democrat with every post now Barry, so quit rooting for them and start rooting for independents and libertarians, you sound a lot more like Goldwater than you do Feinstein.

Actually about 75% of Americans think marijuana should be legal, in some way. Interesting how that number is almost identical to the percentage of Americans who've smoked marijuana at least once.
And, the neocons are those assholes in power now. They preach being conservative, but in reality, are anything but conservative.
I would much rather have a Doctor who smokes some weed work on me, than some damn alcoholic.

And, my politics still lean far liberal, even with a few things hitting more in the center. Just my support of things like SS, unions, and not letting complete retards run the Country, keep me firmly on the liberal side.