No question where the righties want to take America

[SmokinDVM]

You misunderstood the graven image term. Graven image refers to making an idol...gold calf or a giant man holding bolt of lightning with a wild look on his face...And then worshiping it. I see a bunch of people standing around it...Don't look look their worshiping it to me.

Now we're getting into a discussion of the definition of "is". The fact is, this isn't a rendition of their god, but a bastardization of a secular work of art designed to represent this Countrys acceptance of all people, not just good christians. This is another example of the christians stealing a symbol to twist the meaning. The cross, the fish, and now the Statue of Liberty.

This think is strictly a symbol of what they would like the country to be based on. It's no different than a statue of Diane Fienstien breaking an assault rifle over her knee...Bet you'd like that one.

So it's a good thing to want the Country to be based on fantasy, and exclusion, rather than a Constitutional protection of everyone?
And, actually, niether Diane Fienstien, or an assault rifle, are symbols of freedom and fairness cherished by most Americans, but rather an American with an opinion. Besides, you incorrectly assume all liberals support gun control. We do not. Just another stereotype the righties propoganda machine has gotten the sheeple to swallow. Most Democrats, not living in a big city, don't support gun control.

Almost forgot...I got a few liberal democrat friends that are religous...Gonna get their take on this.

Most of my Family, and quite a few friends of mine, are also christians, and they find this display disgusting and idiotic. They also find it interesting, as do I, that this is all ok with righties, but flag burning is a sin of some type.

[heftysmokes]

Besides, you incorrectly assume all liberals support gun control. We do not. Just another stereotype the righties propoganda machine has gotten the sheeple to swallow.

Don't get me wrong here, but aren't you also propogating the stereotype that all republicans are Christians bent on excluding all other religions? You found a ridiculous picture of a statue put up by a narrow-minded congregation and claimed it represented millions of Republicans. Sounds a bit stereotypical. And before you go bashing me and my Rebublican views, know that I've voted Democrat since I've been old enough to vote. I like to think that I can call bullshit whether a Democrat or Republican is selling it, and I'm not buying your bullshit.

[heftysmokes]

I can't believe I just blew my 300th post on this thread

[SmokinDVM]

Don't get me wrong here, but aren't you also propogating the stereotype that all republicans are Christians bent on excluding all other religions? You found a ridiculous picture of a statue put up by a narrow-minded congregation and claimed it represented millions of Republicans. Sounds a bit stereotypical. And before you go bashing me and my Rebublican views, know that I've voted Democrat since I've been old enough to vote. I like to think that I can call bullshit whether a Democrat or Republican is selling it, and I'm not buying your bullshit.

It represents the direction millions of repugs want to take this Country, just like millions of Dems support gun control. We're talking general rules here, and along with that there are always exceptions. It is a fact that the leaders of the repug party are inextricably connected to the religious right. Not all of the repug party support that agenda untill it comes time to vote, they then fall into lock-step with whatever the party leaders say. This lock-step phenomenon does not occur with the Dems. They at least try to be more independantly minded, which leads to better debate, resolution of problems, and better representation in general.

So, if you're not a repug, I'm not bashing your views, I just think you're not looking behind the rose bush to see the repugs pile.

[bigpoppapuff]

biz opp.......kool-ade stand.....gotta be a success...

[ggiese]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

[Shelby07]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

Man, you ain't kiddin'! I am certainly not a bible thumper either, in fact I have a sign on my front door that says "No Soliciting -especially bible thumpers!"

BUT, does anyone remember what the first amendment actually says? For those of you who don't here it is...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

So there it is. Read it and decide for yourself what it says. Don't take some politician's or radio talk show host's word for what it says. Read it and study the other documents that this country was founded on and decide for yourself. In my opinion, the key phrase here is "shall make no law." It says nothing about having the power to make any law. In fact, the way that I remember the lectures about "separation of church and state" a long, long, long time ago (by the way, that overused phrase is nowhere to be found in any of the founding documents) is that the Government has no power to meddle in religious affairs whatsoever. If you read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers or any other document referring to the formation and responsibility of our Government, you will find the overriding theme is that the Government has limited powers, not sweeping or absolute powers. Our founding fathers wanted the gov't to keep their noses out of our business. Period.

So, any time I hear that something is "unconstitutional," I wonder where in the constitution the government is given the power to make that decision. The constitution deliberately attempts to limit the power of the Federal Government. It actually doesn't give any power whatsoever, except for the protection of the people.

Yet, 200+ years later the government has its fingers in everything in a supposed effort to protect us from ourselves. They take about 1/2 of my earnings in a multitude of various taxes and spend it on who knows what, tell me what I can and can't say, and generally are a pain in my pink puckered posterior. It is the biggest reason I can't align myself with the dems. I believe that our gov't needs to have its power limited, not expanded. Sure, the Republican party is filled with a bunch of idiots, just like the dems, but I try to align myself with a platform and a philosophy, not a person. And I do vote democratic if I believe in the person, but most democrats seem to be for increasing taxes, telling me what I should and shouldn't "feel," telling me what is right or wrong and what I should love and hate in the name of good (religion?), and limiting my freedoms in one way or another. Just goes to show the power of the "law." Society doesn't change the laws, law changes society. That is exactly why our government was founded on limited law. But we are no longer a country of justice, we are a country of laws. The principles that our government and society were based on are constantly under attack by professional politicians. And in my opinion, the founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

Too bad.

[SmokinDVM]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

The problem is, the republican party has been loaded up with far right bible thumpers, especially those in leadership positions. The old republican party is really gone, and it still drags around many old members who's beliefs are not being represented by the party anymore, and for some odd reason they can't bring themselves to admit it. So, they continue to enable the whackos to consolidate power.

Prayers can be said in school...as long as it's a private school. Public school prayer, directed or endorsed by school employees, is never a good thing. A moment of silence/reflection to do what you want, silently, is fine and legal. Say a prayer, pick your ass, whatever.
And christmas...I see public displays of it everywhere, and I live in a pretty liberal area. There's no attack on christmas, easter, or any other stolen holidays. You need to stop listening to those assholes O'Rielly and Hannity.
And the Boy Scouts, well at least they can still keep out the gays.

Put a 200'cross outside your church, I don't care. Deface a National Monument with symbols of ignorance, I get a little upset. Could ya tell?

[nhcigarfan]

Its Good!