No question where the righties want to take America

[cigarsarge]

BTW, the second commandment from exodus 20:4 kjv – “Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image…”

Apparently, like so many other things in the bible, that commandment doesn’t apply to repugs.

You misunderstood the graven image term. Graven image refers to making an idol...gold calf or a giant man holding bolt of lightning with a wild look on his face...And then worshiping it. I see a bunch of people standing around it...Don't look look their worshiping it to me.

This think is strictly a symbol of what they would like the country to be based on. It's no different than a statue of Diane Fienstien breaking an assault rifle over her knee...Bet you'd like that one.

Almost forgot...I got a few liberal democrat friends that are religous...Gonna get their take on this.

[kevin7]

Leave it to the fucked up bible thumpers to make suck a fucked up statue. Teah I belive in God and yeah I am Republican leaning but its the whacko fucked up religious right way the fuck out there that screws shit up for the average 'Pub". I live in the south so I know what the fuck I am talking about when I say bible thumping fucktards. Some of them are so fucked up and vocal in drowning everybody in their twisted beliefs I would use a weapon on them if they approached one of my children with their mouth a flappin.

[SmokinDVM]

Leave it to the fucked up bible thumpers to make suck a fucked up statue. Teah I belive in God and yeah I am Republican leaning but its the whacko fucked up religious right way the fuck out there that screws shit up for the average 'Pub". I live in the south so I know what the fuck I am talking about when I say bible thumping fucktards. Some of them are so fucked up and vocal in drowning everybody in their twisted beliefs I would use a weapon on them if they approached one of my children with their mouth a flappin.

And I would support your right to use that weapon!

[cigarsarge]

The cross is used as a as a Christian symbol for obvious reasons. They use the fish symbol because in order to get into secret houses of worship during Roman times they had to use a code...Usually drawing a fish on the ground.

I agree that the Statue of Liberty should not be used as a religous object. That's rather absurd. But in this country you can make a worship symbol out of an elephant turd...You are free to do so.

I saw an Easter display this year that disturbed me. Just a mile or so away from me a fundamentalist Christian church erected three wooden crosses. They placed a youth from the church on each cross. They had youth dressed as Roman soldiers around the kids on the cross. As I drove by one youth had a fake spear and was holding it up to the guy playing Jesus on the cross.

They had two American Flags along with a Christian in the background of the display.

Now people in that church scare me to death. My granddaughter was in the car and saw this...She still talks about the guy with the spear. The flags in the background had no place there. They had no reguard for the public...Only reguard for getting their message out.

The city cops came out and directed traffic as the road became unpassable. The press came out, took interviews pro and con. It was all about publicity to intertwine church and state.

Mixing religion and government should not happen...But is is your choice to do it or not.

I'll be in Memphis this week...I'll see it for my myself.

Comparing Republicans to Muslims...Come on DVM. You can't sit there and say that.

[SmokinDVM]

The cross is used as a as a Christian symbol for obvious reasons. They use the fish symbol because in order to get into secret houses of worship during Roman times they had to use a code...Usually drawing a fish on the ground.

I agree that the Statue of Liberty should not be used as a religous object. That's rather absurd. But in this country you can make a worship symbol out of an elephant turd...You are free to do so.

I saw an Easter display this year that disturbed me. Just a mile or so away from me a fundamentalist Christian church erected three wooden crosses. They placed a youth from the church on each cross. They had youth dressed as Roman soldiers around the kids on the cross. As I drove by one youth had a fake spear and was holding it up to the guy playing Jesus on the cross.

They had two American Flags along with a Christian in the background of the display.

Now people in that church scare me to death. My granddaughter was in the car and saw this...She still talks about the guy with the spear. The flags in the background had no place there. They had no reguard for the public...Only reguard for getting their message out.

The city cops came out and directed traffic as the road became unpassable. The press came out, took interviews pro and con. It was all about publicity to intertwine church and state.

Mixing religion and government should not happen...But is is your choice to do it or not.

I'll be in Memphis this week...I'll see it for my myself.

Comparing Republicans to Muslims...Come on DVM. You can't sit there and say that.

Actually, the cross, and the fish symbol, were both taken from earlier pagan religions so it would be easier to absorb those people into "the fold". Same with christian holidays. Take christmas, for example, it was not the birthday of jesus. It was originally a pagan holiday and was usurped by the christians to be used as a recruiting tool.


I do agree that mixing religion and government shouldn't happen, and good politician should realize that some things that might be against their personal religious beliefs, are still better for the American people.


Why not compare repugs and radical muslims? At this point in history, their goals are essentially the same, the control of the people through a mix of government and religion, with the laws based more on religion than on what's best for all the people.


I'm glad you guys aren't going to get upset over this shit. Adults should be able to discuss politics and religion without getting their panties in a bunch. I don't agree with the mind changing stuff though. If you truly think you know it all, well, that's not really a good thing.

Besides, at the end of the day, after all the political debates, I'd still share a good drink and cigar with any botl.

[Empire23]

Smokin... I agree with you in whole that the admin right now has too much religion involved in their politics. I still dont understand why a "free" country needs a god. But, the statue in your picture was made by a church. You cant blame the government for something that a private church is doing.

[SmokinDVM]

You misunderstood the graven image term. Graven image refers to making an idol...gold calf or a giant man holding bolt of lightning with a wild look on his face...And then worshiping it. I see a bunch of people standing around it...Don't look look their worshiping it to me.

Now we're getting into a discussion of the definition of "is". The fact is, this isn't a rendition of their god, but a bastardization of a secular work of art designed to represent this Countrys acceptance of all people, not just good christians. This is another example of the christians stealing a symbol to twist the meaning. The cross, the fish, and now the Statue of Liberty.

This think is strictly a symbol of what they would like the country to be based on. It's no different than a statue of Diane Fienstien breaking an assault rifle over her knee...Bet you'd like that one.

So it's a good thing to want the Country to be based on fantasy, and exclusion, rather than a Constitutional protection of everyone?
And, actually, niether Diane Fienstien, or an assault rifle, are symbols of freedom and fairness cherished by most Americans, but rather an American with an opinion. Besides, you incorrectly assume all liberals support gun control. We do not. Just another stereotype the righties propoganda machine has gotten the sheeple to swallow. Most Democrats, not living in a big city, don't support gun control.

Almost forgot...I got a few liberal democrat friends that are religous...Gonna get their take on this.

Most of my Family, and quite a few friends of mine, are also christians, and they find this display disgusting and idiotic. They also find it interesting, as do I, that this is all ok with righties, but flag burning is a sin of some type.

[heftysmokes]

Besides, you incorrectly assume all liberals support gun control. We do not. Just another stereotype the righties propoganda machine has gotten the sheeple to swallow.

Don't get me wrong here, but aren't you also propogating the stereotype that all republicans are Christians bent on excluding all other religions? You found a ridiculous picture of a statue put up by a narrow-minded congregation and claimed it represented millions of Republicans. Sounds a bit stereotypical. And before you go bashing me and my Rebublican views, know that I've voted Democrat since I've been old enough to vote. I like to think that I can call bullshit whether a Democrat or Republican is selling it, and I'm not buying your bullshit.

[heftysmokes]

I can't believe I just blew my 300th post on this thread

[SmokinDVM]

Don't get me wrong here, but aren't you also propogating the stereotype that all republicans are Christians bent on excluding all other religions? You found a ridiculous picture of a statue put up by a narrow-minded congregation and claimed it represented millions of Republicans. Sounds a bit stereotypical. And before you go bashing me and my Rebublican views, know that I've voted Democrat since I've been old enough to vote. I like to think that I can call bullshit whether a Democrat or Republican is selling it, and I'm not buying your bullshit.

It represents the direction millions of repugs want to take this Country, just like millions of Dems support gun control. We're talking general rules here, and along with that there are always exceptions. It is a fact that the leaders of the repug party are inextricably connected to the religious right. Not all of the repug party support that agenda untill it comes time to vote, they then fall into lock-step with whatever the party leaders say. This lock-step phenomenon does not occur with the Dems. They at least try to be more independantly minded, which leads to better debate, resolution of problems, and better representation in general.

So, if you're not a repug, I'm not bashing your views, I just think you're not looking behind the rose bush to see the repugs pile.

[bigpoppapuff]

biz opp.......kool-ade stand.....gotta be a success...

[ggiese]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

[Shelby07]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

Man, you ain't kiddin'! I am certainly not a bible thumper either, in fact I have a sign on my front door that says "No Soliciting -especially bible thumpers!"

BUT, does anyone remember what the first amendment actually says? For those of you who don't here it is...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. "

So there it is. Read it and decide for yourself what it says. Don't take some politician's or radio talk show host's word for what it says. Read it and study the other documents that this country was founded on and decide for yourself. In my opinion, the key phrase here is "shall make no law." It says nothing about having the power to make any law. In fact, the way that I remember the lectures about "separation of church and state" a long, long, long time ago (by the way, that overused phrase is nowhere to be found in any of the founding documents) is that the Government has no power to meddle in religious affairs whatsoever. If you read the Constitution, the Declaration of Independence, the Federalist Papers or any other document referring to the formation and responsibility of our Government, you will find the overriding theme is that the Government has limited powers, not sweeping or absolute powers. Our founding fathers wanted the gov't to keep their noses out of our business. Period.

So, any time I hear that something is "unconstitutional," I wonder where in the constitution the government is given the power to make that decision. The constitution deliberately attempts to limit the power of the Federal Government. It actually doesn't give any power whatsoever, except for the protection of the people.

Yet, 200+ years later the government has its fingers in everything in a supposed effort to protect us from ourselves. They take about 1/2 of my earnings in a multitude of various taxes and spend it on who knows what, tell me what I can and can't say, and generally are a pain in my pink puckered posterior. It is the biggest reason I can't align myself with the dems. I believe that our gov't needs to have its power limited, not expanded. Sure, the Republican party is filled with a bunch of idiots, just like the dems, but I try to align myself with a platform and a philosophy, not a person. And I do vote democratic if I believe in the person, but most democrats seem to be for increasing taxes, telling me what I should and shouldn't "feel," telling me what is right or wrong and what I should love and hate in the name of good (religion?), and limiting my freedoms in one way or another. Just goes to show the power of the "law." Society doesn't change the laws, law changes society. That is exactly why our government was founded on limited law. But we are no longer a country of justice, we are a country of laws. The principles that our government and society were based on are constantly under attack by professional politicians. And in my opinion, the founding fathers are spinning in their graves.

Too bad.

[SmokinDVM]

As long as Dr. Barry is around, I don't think we have to worry about our country becoming a christian theocracy!!!

No doubt the far right is loaded up with bible thumping conservatives. But to say the ultimate goal of the Republican party is to become a Christian Theocracy is a tad over the edge. I see a vague connection, but the dots are not all there. It's kinda like saying that the Masonic organization is attempting to move to a totally christian based group.

There's too much diversity in the country for that to ever happen. As a matter of fact, I'd submit to you it appears (disturbingly) to be moving the other direction. Not because I'm a bible-thumping conservative, but because I see the principles of what our country was founded on slowly being stripped from every form of our society. You can't say prayers in the school anymore. Any references to religion is stripped from local communities (as what has happened to several small communities in Illinois), no public displays of "Christmas", the Boy Scouts had to remove the requirement that members be connected to a religious organization, etc.

Sorry - but some mega-churche's symbol in front of their church was meant for exactly what's happening here - spirited debate and attention to their organization. That's why they typically place HUGE crosses out front. Some are going to embrace it, others are going to despise it. And while the majority of that organization may vote largely republican - as disturbing as it may sound - there are some democrats in their midst...

The problem is, the republican party has been loaded up with far right bible thumpers, especially those in leadership positions. The old republican party is really gone, and it still drags around many old members who's beliefs are not being represented by the party anymore, and for some odd reason they can't bring themselves to admit it. So, they continue to enable the whackos to consolidate power.

Prayers can be said in school...as long as it's a private school. Public school prayer, directed or endorsed by school employees, is never a good thing. A moment of silence/reflection to do what you want, silently, is fine and legal. Say a prayer, pick your ass, whatever.
And christmas...I see public displays of it everywhere, and I live in a pretty liberal area. There's no attack on christmas, easter, or any other stolen holidays. You need to stop listening to those assholes O'Rielly and Hannity.
And the Boy Scouts, well at least they can still keep out the gays.

Put a 200'cross outside your church, I don't care. Deface a National Monument with symbols of ignorance, I get a little upset. Could ya tell?

[Shelby07]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I humbly submit that this is by far the most rediculous thread I have seen on this forum.

[Bkcloud114]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I humbly submit that this is by far the most rediculous thread I have seen on this forum.

Yup..... only good this thread can do is stir the shit..... I'm going to go have a cigar

[cigar no baka]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

I humbly submit that this is by far the most rediculous thread I have seen on this forum.

I second that. Let's try not to inflame things by just throwing shit at the wall just to see who gets upset that there is shit on the wall.

[cigarsarge]

Just for the record I'm not gonna get upset over political stuff. I know I'm not gonna change anybody's mind and they are not gonna change mine.

I'm quite happy in my intellegence or my ignorance...However you view it.

[ctc315]

I am so happy to see the generalizations, the name-calling and the stereotyping of all of us Republican/Conservatives. It only reinforces MY idea that most Dems/Libs cannot apply logic and fact to any of their argurments. All you can do is spew out emotional name-calling and vitriolic rhetoric. Your failed attempt to link all Christians/Rights to the Republican/Conservatives has failed. You managed to insult not only Republican/Conservatives, but Middle of the roaders and your breathren Leftys too. Funny, some of my best friends are Christian Democrats and they would never insult an entire group because of the actions of a few. Go back to your humi, pull out a good cigar, have a smoke and CHILL OUT!

[SmokinDVM]

I am so happy to see the generalizations, the name-calling and the stereotyping of all of us Republican/Conservatives. It only reinforces MY idea that most Dems/Libs cannot apply logic and fact to any of their argurments. All you can do is spew out emotional name-calling and vitriolic rhetoric. Your failed attempt to link all Christians/Rights to the Republican/Conservatives has failed. You managed to insult not only Republican/Conservatives, but Middle of the roaders and your breathren Leftys too. Funny, some of my best friends are Christian Democrats and they would never insult an entire group because of the actions of a few. Go back to your humi, pull out a good cigar, have a smoke and CHILL OUT!

Only one getting riled up here is you. So, as has been proven time and again by the present repugs in power, all you can do is spew your bizaro double-speak shit.

And actually, it was a very successful, and accurate, link of the repugs and religious right whack-jobs.
What you have failed to understand is, not all religious people are whack-jobs. Delusional to some degree, but not whack-jobs. There are some religious folks who don't think it's their job to force their fantasies on others. The pubes, and the rrw's can't get it into their thick neandertal skulls, that this Country's Founders wanted to keep religion and government seperate so one wouldn't have too much influence over the other. Something they had seen in Europe, and came here to escape.

When the fuck is this rapture thing going to happen? That'll be a quick way to thin out this admin.