Evolution...not really political, maybe controversial

[mills]

First, I avoided this thread until now because I thought that it would quickly degenerate into a name-calling match, but it's actually quite well-behaved. Now wish I had taken part because I want to reply to just about every post (except for the cheese.) Second, I'm impressed that we have one person claiming science as a tool to keep the rabble in check, and another claiming religion as the same thing. I guess you're damned either way if you're not one of the bourgeouis.

snip... By infusing the masses with the idea that they are nothing more than a glorified monkey, they are able to more easily roll out their plan a step at a time. What they don't want is a large group of people who believe that they are made in the image of God, each with inalienable rights, and irrevocable worth as a human being.

We are entering a new era which will have monumental changes in the way we eat, breath, and procreate. Open your eyes. Peak oil, the Patriot Act, environmental nuts, Martial Law, population reduction, etc. All these ideas are setting the stage for a drama which will completely revamp society in the blink of an eye.

snip... The bible is a work of fiction designed to keep the simple-minded in line. But the bible really isn't a discussion that would be on topic for this thread.

Hershey, I might be misunderstanding you, but I found it interesting that you threw 'environmental nuts' in with Orwellian government stuff. If there's one thing that I think would suffer at the hands of a tyranny it would be the environment. I don't think they would be on the same side.

I'm Creationist, but you can't refute natural selection. Whether that means all life evolved from the primordial ooze, I don't know, but the strongest ones in a species will pass on their genes more often than not.

Finally, I hate the term Intelligent Design, because it makes no sense outside of religion. I agree with most that religion and politics should not hold hands here in the US of A.

PS Somebody should start a gay marriage thread ;)

[ReV]

I'm Creationist, but you can't refute natural selection. Whether that means all life evolved from the primordial ooze, I don't know, but the strongest ones in a species will pass on their genes more often than not.

The two dont contradict... the only theory that is REALLY opposed to creationism is spontaneous generation... basically one says that an omnipotent being 'God' created life, the other that life formed from nothing... from that point on, unless you decide to take the time frames mentioned in the bible literally, they dont contradict... it says God created this and that, but it never said that evolution and natural selection weren't the tools which God used to create this and that... i think its funny how people put limits on a being that is supposedly omnipotent and as such, a time frame-- say 7 days-- would mean nothing to... God would exist outside of a limitation such as time, and viewed in that manner, the theories dont contradict. By the way, not an attack at you, just my view on the situation, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I cant tell exactly what you are saying, but it seems that you imply creationism and natural selection conflict on some level and i know alot of people DO believe just that.

[mills]

The two dont contradict... the only theory that is REALLY opposed to creationism is spontaneous generation... basically one says that an omnipotent being 'God' created life, the other that life formed from nothing... from that point on, unless you decide to take the time frames mentioned in the bible literally, they dont contradict... it says God created this and that, but it never said that evolution and natural selection weren't the tools which God used to create this and that... i think its funny how people put limits on a being that is supposedly omnipotent and as such, a time frame-- say 7 days-- would mean nothing to... God would exist outside of a limitation such as time, and viewed in that manner, the theories dont contradict. By the way, not an attack at you, just my view on the situation, everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. I cant tell exactly what you are saying, but it seems that you imply creationism and natural selection conflict on some level and i know alot of people DO believe just that.

Don't worry, I don't feel attacked. I didn't mean to imply that the two couldn't coexist, I am was more trying to get at what you said in your last sentence. Good points by the way. I don't know what is harder to believe, that an omnipotent being created the world, or that enough molecules randomly collided billions of years ago to create life.

[DPB]

Hi long time lurker but posting for first time.
Complexity arose from simplisity a long non random gradual process. to see who we are and where we came from you need to regress,evolution and natural selection has been proven over and over again through the abundance of eviedence that support the facts.to go back to the begining to see what spark the beginings of life on earth right now science doesnt really know but there are working on it just because science may not have the answer now doesnt mean we fill the gaps with god because god is not anymore of an answer than not knowing ,there is nothing to be afraid of not knowing but give it time with the ever advancement in science and tecnology that one day we will have the answer .stop using 1st century thinking. we know why religon was created and where it came from.also to say that god exists outside of our known universe or is beyond space and time is a cop out.that just makes it to easy not having to answer the question of who created god. if god is such a complex being than it had to come from somthing else.alot of things can not be proved or disproved ,golden unicorns ,invisable purple dinosaurs easter bunny, santa but it doesnt make it true.just because somthing cant be proved or disproved doesnt make it TRUE.
As far as the bible being a spitual guide, well i question that also, then your cherry picking the hell out of it because there are alot of nasty things in that 1st century book. stoning women if they are not virgins etc.. we can all cherry pick the bible for all the good things but that doesnt make it a good book to live your life.there are plent of book out now that are much more updated to live your life in a spirtual sense if you refer to spirtual as connected to our world and universe.Anything religon has to offer it got from us ,morailty came from us not the other way around ,good people do god things bad people do bad things.
I can go on and on here about biodeversity and so on but and am a reader not a writer and not that articulate in writing about science.
check out richarddawkins.net if you want plent of good stuff there.
and i always find it interesting that everyone uses science every day in thier lives but the minute it challeges thier belif sytem they reject it ,amazes me simply does.
take care
and where can i get some padrons 64s online cheap lol
peace
Doug

[DPB]

sorry for any typos it was early when i wrote this and i am to lazy to edit ..
lol
take care peace
besides i am sure you get my point
doug

[ReV]

Or you could just completely disregard religion...

stop using 1st century thinking. we know why religon was created and where it came from.also to say that god exists outside of our known universe or is beyond space and time is a cop out.

Awfully bold statement, but there are a few problems:

a) by telling people that they're straight up wrong, you're only going to make them more belligerent... (also i like how you dismiss the religious argument as being as absurd as "invisable purple dinosaurs" ... i mean, you're entitled to your views, but you'll never win an argument like that... might as well just scream 'NO!' while the other guy screams 'YES!', you'll get just as far. The only way you'd win this argument with a religious zealot is if they just got tired of listening to you talk and gave up...)

b) Never said God IS anything... I said that a being that is supposedly omnipotent and capable of creating reality as we know it would most certainly exist outside of that reality, and thus time and space.

c) i stick by my statement... if a being did exist that were in fact omnipotent and did in fact create the universe as we know it... that being would have had to have existed before said universe and thus able to exist outside of it... not so much a cop out as a logical progression
Why would a god who created time and space then be limited by his own creation... come on.

[ReV]

Now go introduce yourself... jumping right into a religious debate isn't the best way to make a first impression on this board... if you've been lurking you should know that too.

[DPB]

living outside space and time? Now your inventing realms.
If a god exists then the universe if it was created would look like a different universe then we live in now.To try to prove or disprove god is like trying to prove or disprove that a invisible purple dinosaur exists, But again it doesn't mean that its true.But its not up to me to try to disprove its existence but up to whoever to prove its existence.without saying it cant be done that to me is a cop out and just to easy because something cant be explained just don't jump in and use fairy tales to try and explain it. Plus it still leaves a wide door open of if god created everything what created god? that would be a logical progression or regression.
Doug

[mills]

Hi long time lurker but posting for first time.
Complexity arose from simplisity a long non random gradual process. to see who we are and where we came from you need to regress,evolution and natural selection has been proven over and over again through the abundance of eviedence that support the facts.to go back to the begining to see what spark the beginings of life on earth right now science doesnt really know but there are working on it just because science may not have the answer now doesnt mean we fill the gaps with god because god is not anymore of an answer than not knowing ,there is nothing to be afraid of not knowing but give it time with the ever advancement in science and tecnology that one day we will have the answer .stop using 1st century thinking. we know why religon was created and where it came from.also to say that god exists outside of our known universe or is beyond space and time is a cop out.that just makes it to easy not having to answer the question of who created god. if god is such a complex being than it had to come from somthing else.alot of things can not be proved or disproved ,golden unicorns ,invisable purple dinosaurs easter bunny, santa but it doesnt make it true.just because somthing cant be proved or disproved doesnt make it TRUE.
As far as the bible being a spitual guide, well i question that also, then your cherry picking the hell out of it because there are alot of nasty things in that 1st century book. stoning women if they are not virgins etc.. we can all cherry pick the bible for all the good things but that doesnt make it a good book to live your life.there are plent of book out now that are much more updated to live your life in a spirtual sense if you refer to spirtual as connected to our world and universe.Anything religon has to offer it got from us ,morailty came from us not the other way around ,good people do god things bad people do bad things.
I can go on and on here about biodeversity and so on but and am a reader not a writer and not that articulate in writing about science.
check out richarddawkins.net if you want plent of good stuff there.
and i always find it interesting that everyone uses science every day in thier lives but the minute it challeges thier belif sytem they reject it ,amazes me simply does.
take care
and where can i get some padrons 64s online cheap lol
peace
Doug

Normally I think CC is a little too anal with the spelling and grammar, but damn, this just hurts the eyes.