Riots in France

[Jonsey5484]

Regarding the war in Iraq I still would like to point out that one million people marched in London against it and that the overwhelming majority of the British people were against it. It is still to this day a cross to bear for Tony Blair and the single most negative point of his entire leadership. He went to war AGAINST the will of the people he is supposed to represent and most people here still feel the war was an illegal one.

France was by no means the only country to oppose an american-led (or any single/dual country led for that matter) war. It would have agreed to it had the UN agreed to it. Once again: On which grounds was the war declared? On the grounds that Saddam was a threat to the world and possessed weapons capable of striking London within minutes.

Where are the weapons?

Do you feel safer now?

Reaganyouth, this is exactly what I'm talking about!!!! GET YOUR FACTS RIGHT!!!!! I keep hearing so much crap about the French I don't even know where to start. The rumour you are spreading is just that. A rumour. Fuelled by ignorance and spread by the media all to happy to jump at any opportunity to make a quick buck by sustaining stereotypes.

The United States has been granted tax-free and rent-free use of all these cemetery sites, in perpetuity, by their host governments (french or others)!!!

Take a look at this and let me know what you think. Especially towards the end bit about the so called "rent".


http://www.snopes.com/politics/satire/graves.asp

It is fine that the French did not want to help the Americans with the war in Iraq. That was not my point, my point is that after all of the dirty work was done, then they wanted a piece of the action.

[Cohibanut]

Care to show me which reliable , reputable sources you found this information in?

[Jonsey5484]

Maybe you will find this helpful. http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...omtimeline.pdf
A complete timeline of events of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Read the whole thing. I bet you can find the word French mentioned once in there. You will see the British.....but no French! I wonder why that is!!!

[Cohibanut]

Maybe you will find this helpful. http://www.centerforsecuritypolicy.o...omtimeline.pdf
A complete timeline of events of Operation Iraqi Freedom. Read the whole thing. I bet you can find the word French mentioned once in there. You will see the British.....but no French! I wonder why that is!!!

Jonsey,

I agree that you won't find the word French in there once. After all we all know they refused to partake in the war. I think the point we were discussing was around the reasons why they didn't partake in it.

It still doesn't show me where France is now supposed to want "a bit of the action".

God I need a beer.

[Jonsey5484]

God I need a beer.

I agree with you there!!!

When I was talking about "a bit of the action" I meant helping with post war Iraq and making decisions regarding government and rebuilding.

Unless there is anything else to say, let's just leave it at a disagreement. If not we will just go around and around in circles and get dizzy In talking with you, you have enlightened me on some facts that I did not know. Thank you. If you are ever in the Wisconsin area, give me a shout and I will buy you a beer!

[reaganyouth84]

I'm not trying to spread rumors, it is a fact, pure and simple though. I will say that the French did help us gain our independence, even though they did it in spite of the British because they hated them, but I am greatful that the French did help. I don't want to cause trouble though, you seem like an alright guy. Are you French? My grandfather and his side of the family are. We should chat about it sometime.

-Mike

[Jonsey5484]

I'm not trying to spread rumors, it is a fact, pure and simple though. I will say that the French did help us gain our independence, even though they did it in spite of the British because they hated them, but I am greatful that the French did help. I don't want to cause trouble though, you seem like an alright guy. Are you French? My grandfather and his side of the family are. We should chat about it sometime.

-Mike

I agree with you....The French have helped us tremendously in the past. Since then we have also helped them a great deal. That is what Allies do for each other. And I don't blame them for not wanting to help us in Iraq. What pisses me off is the fact that then after it was all over and the part of rebuilding, now they want in. They turned their backs on us when we had to fight, now they want to help. That is bullshit.

Also, I also think that you seem like an alright guy Cohibanut, and none of this is personal....just two people with different viewpoints.

[Cohibanut]

I'm not trying to spread rumors, it is a fact, pure and simple though. I will say that the French did help us gain our independence, even though they did it in spite of the British because they hated them, but I am greatful that the French did help. I don't want to cause trouble though, you seem like an alright guy. Are you French? My grandfather and his side of the family are. We should chat about it sometime.

-Mike

Hey Reagan, yes I am French (I guess my rants were a bit of a giveaway huh ).

Where does your Grandad come from?

[Cohibanut]

Let me expand on this. I am in no way saying that France is the best country on earth and that the French are free of any weaknesses. What I’m saying is that I am sick to death with people calling them cowards. Cowards they are not. They are a proud people with a huge history and hold a place in history past, present and future which can rival that of any great country on earth.

They are a rational people as opposed to a people enclined to follow its guts and Independence-Day-like rhetoric at the first sign of trouble.

Talking about wars, do not forget that the whole of europe in its 2000 years of history has seen more deaths through wars, genocides and various other horrors than the US ever will. This weight on our (Europe’s) shoulder combined with the 1,000,000 million death of the first world war, the 700,000 or so deaths of the second world war may go some way to explain France’s reluctance to engage in a conflict without careful thinking and , yes, reasoning.

Do you only realise how much in the shit the US is at the moment? With borrowing at an all time high, two natural disasters of epic scale to deal with running into billions of dollars, a war in Iraq it is incapable of finishing and a conflict in Afghanistan it doesn’t even know how to deal with?

You say "after the dirty work was done" it is NOT done. Look at the state of Iraq!!! It's a total mess. THAT is the reason why France wanted to use diplomacy in the first place.

[Cohibanut]

Hey guys .

I am REALLY grateful for that. I absolutely agree that none of this is personal. Just different points of view and I am really glad we can exchange them.

Hell, if we didn't live so far appart we could have a chat over a few beers and a fine cigars!!!

[Jonsey5484]

Yes, I guess using the phrase "dirty work is done" is sort of false. There are still terror bombings all over, what ticks me off the most though is that French want in now that we are in decision making process, they would not help us take over Iraq and now they want to help us make decisions on how to turn it back to the people. They have no right in any decision making.

[reaganyouth84]

You say "after the dirty work was done" it is NOT done. Look at the state of Iraq!!! It's a total mess. THAT is the reason why France wanted to use diplomacy in the first place.

I will say that we are a long way away from securing Iraq, but people in this day and age are impatient. They don't understand things on a grand scale. What the U.S. is trying to do in Iraq is to give them a new government, a better way of life. We aren't out trying to just blow the whole place up, if we were, we could have done that in a couple of days. The thing is, a war like this is on a grand scale, we will be there for decades. Look at WWII, there are American forces STILL IN EUROPE 50 YEARS LATER trying to secure the peace, trying to rebuild. I believe we are in Iraq for the right cause. I will never forget seeing this little Iraqi boy on t.v. one night, holding a sign that said, "Thank you Mr. Bush", God, it broke my heart.

-Mike

[Cohibanut]

Hey guys, I think I agree that we'll agree to disagree ( ).

It has indeed been a pleasure to have this lively discussion and it is a shame that we don't live closer!! We could have turned this into a (friendly ) debate over a few beers and cigars.

Or a glass of french wine perhaps?

I must add that I love the US. I have been there many times and will most definitely go back.

Keep a stack of beers in the fridge! I may knock at your doors with a couple of smokes one day!

[Jonsey5484]

Hey guys, I think I agree that we'll agree to disagree ( ).

It has indeed been a pleasure to have this lively discussion and it is a shame that we don't live closer!! We could have turned this into a (friendly ) debate over a few beers and cigars.

Or a glass of french wine perhaps?

I must add that I love the US. I have been there many times and will most definitely go back.

Keep a stack of beers in the fridge! I may knock at your doors with a couple of smokes one day!

My address is inmy profile, you know where to find me!!

[reaganyouth84]

"A leader, once convinced a particular course of action is the right one, must have the determination to stick with it and be undaunted when the going gets rough."
-Ronald Reagan

"We did not seek the role of leadership that has been thrust upon us. But whether we like it or not, the events of our time demand America's participation." -Ronald Reagan

-Mike

[Jonsey5484]

War is a dirty thing. There will always be deaths and hardships. Unfortunatly with the war in Iraq, and the post war. The problem is that the Liberal Media has made the decision that we have no business in Iraq, so to make it look worse than it actually is is their goal. Tell me, when was the last time you looked at a newspaper, or watched the news and the news media reported that another school has been built, or a hospital, or police station?? I bet you can say never. The news only shows the gory bombings and terror. They don't want to show you all the good that is being done. Kids and Adults being vaccinated and educated. Police trained. The news will never show you that because they want Bush to look bad. I don't believe a single thing I hear or read from the media. They are just out there to show the bad stuff.

Damn, now I got started on the Media!!! I think we need to lock out this thread!