Middle east outcome

[SmokinDVM]

Just curious DVM...What rights have you personally lost? I'm still living my life the way I was before Bush.

I still move around the country feely, I tote my gun around. I voice my opinion without repercussion from the government.

What would we loose if liberals had their way all the time? Checks and balances do work.

One more thing I've noticed about liberals...When they get on the defensive they tend to call names and shout just as you have done to WW. You have no clue as to his what he has gone through in his life. If you can't dazzle em with brillance...Baffle em with bullshit.

WW is obviously pretty intelllegent and studied. He did not taunt you. he showed you respect...Just differed in opinion.

Your attitude is common of liberals. That is the reason I'll never understand em.

I pay attention...Very close attention.

Just because you haven't noticed them being abused, doesn't mean they haven't been. How would you know anyway, as they don't have to tell you. The right you've lost is the right to be protected from unwarranted search and or siezure.

You've been so indoctrinated by the repukes constant harping about those damned liberals, you can't see the pubes stabbing you in the back. Nor, it seams, do you care.

WW did remark about my easy life. His assumption came first. He went to college, BFD. Dumbya went to college too. Just going means nothing, it's what you take away from the experience.

I've been making my own way since I was 15, got a few meals here and there from some good people, obviously not repukes, but never asked for any handouts. Joined the Army, as soon as I was old enough. I worked my way through college also, all while supporting a Family. 8 years of 18+ hour days, seasonal farm work, digging ditches, tutoring other students, ANYTHING to make a couple more bucks. I've paid my dues, and then some. So, I don't take it too kindly when some scholorship baby makes comments about my "easy life".

If you don't like my "colorful" descriptions of the people I feal are the real enemies of this Country, well too bad.
As I have seen it, and I pay attention, conservatives have let themselves be hijacked by a party that doesn't represent the majority, but fail to see that it's happened. They blindly follow around behind their "leaders", never asking any questions or challenging the opinions of their party leaders. This isn't the way the Democrats/Liberals work. Many, though not all, at least attempt to THINK before acting on a problem. Action without thought is almost always a recipe for disaster.

[WhiteWidow]

WW did remark about my easy life. His assumption came first. He went to college, BFD. Dumbya went to college too. Just going means nothing, it's what you take away from the experience.

If you paid attention you would notice my point was that your life is most definetly better and easier than that of someone living in Nazi Germany, which you compared our country to. I never belittled or mentioned anything about your life.

I'm done here, this went from being a good discussion to a bunch of unrelated bullshit.

[SmokinDVM]

If you paid attention you would notice my point was that your life is most definetly better and easier than that of someone living in Nazi Germany, which you compared our country to. I never belittled or mentioned anything about your life.

I'm done here, this went from being a good discussion to a bunch of unrelated bullshit.

You know why my life is better than someones that lived in Nazi Germany? BECAUSE I DON'T LIVE IN NAZI GERMANY. I do, however, live in a Country whose leaders would just love to have the power and control of those Nazis, and work towards that end every day.

If you seriously think you live under a Nazi regime, then you have obviously led a very easy and sheltered life, and probably haven't had to overcome any kind of real challenges in life other than trying to figure out how to not take responsibility for your own actions.

Who's not "taking responsibility"? Nice try, whining foul, but I call BULLSHIT on it.

[cigarsarge]

Just because you haven't noticed them being abused, doesn't mean they haven't been. How would you know anyway, as they don't have to tell you. The right you've lost is the right to be protected from unwarranted search and or siezure.

You've been so indoctrinated by the repukes constant harping about those damned liberals, you can't see the pubes stabbing you in the back. Nor, it seams, do you care.

WW did remark about my easy life. His assumption came first. He went to college, BFD. Dumbya went to college too. Just going means nothing, it's what you take away from the experience.

I've been making my own way since I was 15, got a few meals here and there from some good people, obviously not repukes, but never asked for any handouts. Joined the Army, as soon as I was old enough. I worked my way through college also, all while supporting a Family. 8 years of 18+ hour days, seasonal farm work, digging ditches, tutoring other students, ANYTHING to make a couple more bucks. I've paid my dues, and then some. So, I don't take it too kindly when some scholorship baby makes comments about my "easy life".

If you don't like my "colorful" descriptions of the people I feal are the real enemies of this Country, well too bad.
As I have seen it, and I pay attention, conservatives have let themselves be hijacked by a party that doesn't represent the majority, but fail to see that it's happened. They blindly follow around behind their "leaders", never asking any questions or challenging the opinions of their party leaders. This isn't the way the Democrats/Liberals work. Many, though not all, at least attempt to THINK before acting on a problem. Action without thought is almost always a recipe for disaster.

Well...The last I checked I am protected from unwarranted search and siezure...Something the constitution protects. Please name me some UNITED STATES CITIZENS that have had unwarranted searches and siezures by the Bush administration.

The pubes stabing me in the back...WTF is that crap. Poor choice of words or poor spelling.

You do have an easy life compared to many. Life ain't easy for the working people...That includes you...But

A friend of mine's dad was a Russian Jew. His parents sent him over to America on a cattle boat when he was nine years old to save him from oppression...By himself. He never saw or heard from them again.

He landed in America...Went to work...Made a life for himself...and died a fairly wealthy man.

I think that is the hard life WW was speaking about. I seriously doubt your life ever was that tough...I know mine never was and I have worked hard for all I have got. I still do all I can for an extra buck. You never get your dues paid in my opinion. Saying you have paid all your dues and then some is garbage...Typical liberal train of thought. Nobody except a very few get a free ride.

I don't mind "colorful descriptions" of anything. When "colorful" becomes taunting or baiting it's a different story. Just because someone has not had as much life experence as you does not deny them there opinion...That may be totally correct.

By the way...You are making unfounded assumptions about me also. I'm not led around by the nose by anybody.

If there is one thing I've learned from liberals...Think before you act. They should think more and act less.

[SmokinDVM]

A friend of mine's dad ...

WTF is that? Shall we sink to that level now? Because if we are, it should be noted where it started, so as to avoid confusion later.

Oh, you didn't see that, in your diligence, that right was removed by the "patriot" act. Ever notice when the government wants to screw you, they just wrap it up neatly in the flag, and ya'll eat it right up?

I never said I was done paying dues. I have, however, racked up more than my share to date. Enough to not have to take backhanded stabs by anyone, especially some young smartass.


I didn't mention anything about you being led around by the nose. I did mention conservatives who blindly follow. If you're one of those, speak up, if not, why take offense to it?

[cigarsarge]

I just re-read the the Patroit Act that Barry says takes our personal freedoms away. It does not authorize any intrusion into citizens lifes.

It does allow for civil penalties if the courts feel it has been done. It does allow the government to take steps to protect our way of life. It is not a perfect document...But it is a good start.

Barry... WW did not give a backhanded slap at you...But you seem to pass them out on a regular basis. Nobody has brought name calling into this except you. You may have gone to college...But you flunked People Skills 101.

You also made the statment lets build bunkers to keep the boogieman out. Well my friend...Nobody else here has been running around saying the sky is falling except you. Guess you better build one.

[SmokinDVM]

I just re-read the the Patroit Act that Barry says takes our personal freedoms away. It does not authorize any intrusion into citizens lifes.

It does allow for civil penalties if the courts feel it has been done. It does allow the government to take steps to protect our way of life. It is not a perfect document...But it is a good start.

Well, in your frantic scramble to read all the patriot act, and its hundreds of associated articles, you seemed to have missed a few key points. Follow the links, and read up on the truth. I doubt you will, as you wouldn't want the government knowing you visited a liberal website.
The Patriot Act increases the governments surveillance powers in four areas:

1. Records searches. It expands the government's ability to look at records on an individual's activity being held by a third parties. (Section 215)
2. Secret searches. It expands the government's ability to search private property without notice to the owner. (Section 213)
3. Intelligence searches. It expands a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment that had been created for the collection of foreign intelligence information (Section 218).
4. "Trap and trace" searches. It expands another Fourth Amendment exception for spying that collects "addressing" information about the origin and destination of communications, as opposed to the content (Section 214).Link

Why the Patriot Act's expansion of records searches is unconstitutional
Section 215 of the Patriot Act violates the Constitution in several ways. It:

* Violates the Fourth Amendment, which says the government cannot conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed or will commit a crime.
* Violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech by prohibiting the recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, even where there is no real need for secrecy.
* Violates the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to launch investigations of American citizens in part for exercising their freedom of speech.
* Violates the Fourth Amendmentby failing to provide notice - even after the fact - to persons whose privacy has been compromised. Notice is also a key element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment. Link.It doesn't seem so harmless to me.

Barry... WW did not give a backhanded slap at you...But you seem to pass them out on a regular basis. Nobody has brought name calling into this except you. You may have gone to college...But you flunked People Skills 101.

Actually, he did take a backhanded dig at me, and I returned in kind.
And, now the upstanding conservative hero, has also taken a jab. Welcome to the place where all of us liberal college flunkies hang out.

You also made the statment lets build bunkers to keep the boogieman out. Well my friend...Nobody else here has been running around saying the sky is falling except you. Guess you better build one.

Actually, you've misunderstood my post, AGAIN. Maybe a remedial course on reading comprehension is in order?
What was said: If you, and your rrw fearmongering masters, are so afraid of the terrorists attacking you in your home, repeal the fucking bullshit patriot act, and build yourselves a deep bunker to move into instead. That way the rest of us, who have a pair swinging, don't have to give up our Constitutional Rights just for a bunch of pussies.
And, if the shoe fits, wear it.

[cigarsarge]

I...Like you... Have studied the Patriot Act numerous times. Today was not mt first time to look it over as you seem to believe.

Unlike you I don't believe the government is snooping into my every aspect of my life so the ACLU page was no big deal...They make about as much sense as you.

I just realized something...You left wingers have alot in common with the far right. You both believe the government is sneaking up on you to violate your constitutional rights.

[SmokinDVM]

I...Like you... Have studied the Patriot Act numerous times. Today was not mt first time to look it over as you seem to believe.

Unlike you I don't believe the government is snooping into my every aspect of my life so the ACLU page was no big deal...They make about as much sense as you.

I just realized something...You left wingers have alot in common with the far right. You both believe the government is sneaking up on you to violate your constitutional rights.

The point is, you don't KNOW if they are or not, and they don't have to tell you.


And I'll bet thousands of jews continued to deny the possibility that they were being taken to their death, right up untill it happened.

Sometimes, the conspiracy theory is true. I'd rather not have to just trust that the government will do the right thing, no matter who's in charge at the time. Because, the thing that usually happens, is seldom right for anyone except those in charge. History backs me up on this one.

[SuperChuck]

I just realized something...You left wingers have alot in common with the far right. You both believe the government is sneaking up on you to violate your constitutional rights.

Hehehe, I was JUST thinking that!

It seems that the far left and the far right are both yelling "You're taking away my rights!"

-----------

Just to comment on the Patriot act real quickly...

No one ever wanted the Patriot Act to be a permanent solution. It was only meant as a stopgap to help the executive branch fight a "war" we are unfamiliar with fighting.

The Patriot Act was extended recently, but i seem to recall it reduced a bit. It wasn't significant, but it was a baby step toward its revocation.