Middle east outcome

[SmokinDVM]

I just re-read the the Patroit Act that Barry says takes our personal freedoms away. It does not authorize any intrusion into citizens lifes.

It does allow for civil penalties if the courts feel it has been done. It does allow the government to take steps to protect our way of life. It is not a perfect document...But it is a good start.

Well, in your frantic scramble to read all the patriot act, and its hundreds of associated articles, you seemed to have missed a few key points. Follow the links, and read up on the truth. I doubt you will, as you wouldn't want the government knowing you visited a liberal website.
The Patriot Act increases the governments surveillance powers in four areas:

1. Records searches. It expands the government's ability to look at records on an individual's activity being held by a third parties. (Section 215)
2. Secret searches. It expands the government's ability to search private property without notice to the owner. (Section 213)
3. Intelligence searches. It expands a narrow exception to the Fourth Amendment that had been created for the collection of foreign intelligence information (Section 218).
4. "Trap and trace" searches. It expands another Fourth Amendment exception for spying that collects "addressing" information about the origin and destination of communications, as opposed to the content (Section 214).Link

Why the Patriot Act's expansion of records searches is unconstitutional
Section 215 of the Patriot Act violates the Constitution in several ways. It:

* Violates the Fourth Amendment, which says the government cannot conduct a search without obtaining a warrant and showing probable cause to believe that the person has committed or will commit a crime.
* Violates the First Amendment's guarantee of free speech by prohibiting the recipients of search orders from telling others about those orders, even where there is no real need for secrecy.
* Violates the First Amendment by effectively authorizing the FBI to launch investigations of American citizens in part for exercising their freedom of speech.
* Violates the Fourth Amendmentby failing to provide notice - even after the fact - to persons whose privacy has been compromised. Notice is also a key element of due process, which is guaranteed by the Fifth Amendment. Link.It doesn't seem so harmless to me.

Barry... WW did not give a backhanded slap at you...But you seem to pass them out on a regular basis. Nobody has brought name calling into this except you. You may have gone to college...But you flunked People Skills 101.

Actually, he did take a backhanded dig at me, and I returned in kind.
And, now the upstanding conservative hero, has also taken a jab. Welcome to the place where all of us liberal college flunkies hang out.

You also made the statment lets build bunkers to keep the boogieman out. Well my friend...Nobody else here has been running around saying the sky is falling except you. Guess you better build one.

Actually, you've misunderstood my post, AGAIN. Maybe a remedial course on reading comprehension is in order?
What was said: If you, and your rrw fearmongering masters, are so afraid of the terrorists attacking you in your home, repeal the fucking bullshit patriot act, and build yourselves a deep bunker to move into instead. That way the rest of us, who have a pair swinging, don't have to give up our Constitutional Rights just for a bunch of pussies.
And, if the shoe fits, wear it.

[cigarsarge]

I...Like you... Have studied the Patriot Act numerous times. Today was not mt first time to look it over as you seem to believe.

Unlike you I don't believe the government is snooping into my every aspect of my life so the ACLU page was no big deal...They make about as much sense as you.

I just realized something...You left wingers have alot in common with the far right. You both believe the government is sneaking up on you to violate your constitutional rights.

[SmokinDVM]

I...Like you... Have studied the Patriot Act numerous times. Today was not mt first time to look it over as you seem to believe.

Unlike you I don't believe the government is snooping into my every aspect of my life so the ACLU page was no big deal...They make about as much sense as you.

I just realized something...You left wingers have alot in common with the far right. You both believe the government is sneaking up on you to violate your constitutional rights.

The point is, you don't KNOW if they are or not, and they don't have to tell you.


And I'll bet thousands of jews continued to deny the possibility that they were being taken to their death, right up untill it happened.

Sometimes, the conspiracy theory is true. I'd rather not have to just trust that the government will do the right thing, no matter who's in charge at the time. Because, the thing that usually happens, is seldom right for anyone except those in charge. History backs me up on this one.

[bluesman455]

[bluesman455]

[SuperChuck]

I just realized something...You left wingers have alot in common with the far right. You both believe the government is sneaking up on you to violate your constitutional rights.

Hehehe, I was JUST thinking that!

It seems that the far left and the far right are both yelling "You're taking away my rights!"

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Just to comment on the Patriot act real quickly...

No one ever wanted the Patriot Act to be a permanent solution. It was only meant as a stopgap to help the executive branch fight a "war" we are unfamiliar with fighting.

The Patriot Act was extended recently, but i seem to recall it reduced a bit. It wasn't significant, but it was a baby step toward its revocation.

[Kenyth]

Suppressing protestors is nothing new. It's been happening as long as I can remember. Protestors have the habit of stabbing themselves in the foot to get attention. I don't think peaceful protesting equates to being a royal pain in the ass or a major disruption at an event. Many protestors will take things too far, given the opportunity. The local officials don't particularly like being embarrassed by disruptive behavior when the big guys come to visit. They see it as a reflection on themselves and their ability to provide for the VIP visit. A disruptive occurance, such as a wayward egg or tomato for instance, will make sure visiting dignitaries will avoid their areas for a long time to come. This leads to a little overzealousness with the local law enforcement. It also leads to taking advantage of the situation to squelch the protestors exposure by the VIP's people.

[ggiese]

Suppressing protestors is nothing new. It's been happening as long as I can remember. Protestors have the habit of stabbing themselves in the foot to get attention. I don't think peaceful protesting equates to being a royal pain in the ass or a major disruption at an event. Many protestors will take things too far, given the opportunity. The local officials don't particularly like being embarrassed by disruptive behavior when the big guys come to visit. They see it as a reflection on themselves and their ability to provide for the VIP visit. A disruptive occurance, such as a wayward egg or tomato for instance, will make sure visiting dignitaries will avoid their areas for a long time to come. This leads to a little overzealousness with the local law enforcement. It also leads to taking advantage of the situation to squelch the protestors exposure by the VIP's people.

...yep - and then you get the knuckleheads who WANT to be arrested - they go out of their way to do it. It gets main stream press, advances their argument (that our country is becoming a nazi Germany), and they get to do the wounded puppy whine (exactly like that one first person press story DVM quoted)...

[Kenyth]

...yep - and then you get the knuckleheads who WANT to be arrested - they go out of their way to do it. It gets main stream press, advances their argument (that our country is becoming a nazi Germany), and they get to do the wounded puppy whine (exactly like that one first person press story DVM quoted)...

Idiots make it hard on everyone. Truly reasonable and peaceful protestors get treated pretty badly because of groups like the church that was picketing soldiers funerals.

Let's not treat the other side as angels without an agenda either though. If making a molehill into a mountain and supressing a few rights will keep the protestors (and bad press) out of sight, they'll jump on it in a heartbeat! Local officials will also protect their interests without regard for the right to peacefully protest. That's what happens when you have a confict of interests with the big boy's though.

[SmokinDVM]

Idiots make it hard on everyone. Truly reasonable and peaceful protestors get treated pretty badly because of groups like the church that was picketing soldiers funerals.

Let's not treat the other side as angels without an agenda either though. If making a molehill into a mountain and supressing a few rights will keep the protestors (and bad press) out of sight, they'll jump on it in a heartbeat! Local officials will also protect their interests without regard for the right to peacefully protest. That's what happens when you have a confict of interests with the big boy's though.

So you're saying it's OK to violate peoples RIGHTS, just so some dumbass "vip" doesn't get embarrassed? Now that is disconcerting.