National Guard-Which Border?

[SuperChuck]

You know what, you're right. Let's become a 3rd World Country, so we can compete with other 3rd World Countries on their level. Because that's what you're really talking about. Let's destroy the middle class in America so we can have a small ruling rich elite class and a huge poor slave class just like Mexico.

Because the rest of the world is 3rd world? Europe, Asia, and the Middle East are absolutely kicking our asses because they are highly competitive regions.
The United States is currently imports more product than it exports. That's a recipe for economic collapse. It has nothing to do with illegal workers coming into the country and taking over our crappy jobs, it's because more competitive foreign companies are offering better products at competitive prices.

Since we were talking about cars, a good example is GM. I drive a GM. GM is slowly putting itself out of business. Their problem boils down to some very simple supply and demand issues. Less and less people want to drive GM cars. More people want to drive German or Japanese makes. However, GM is making cars like there's no tomorrow. They refuse to lay off workers and slow down production and they apparently refuse to improve quality (as I said, I drive a GM).

GM isn't even trying to compete. They're just keeping on keeping on. Hell, the government's going to bail them out, anyway.

And Pedro, he doesn't shop at Best Buy. He sends his money back to Mexico to support familia still there. I've posted this stat. before, but here it comes again...Mexico's second biggest income source is US Dollars being sent there by illegals in the US.

Unfortunately, that's true.

What I'd really like to see is Pedro working here legally, bringing his family over, maybe paying some taxes, and spending the money here. I feel the same way about software outsourcing. Get the Indian programmers stateside and get them to spend their money here.

If you think about it, all we're doing by closing immigration is sending more money out of the country. If GM opens a plant in Mexico for cars sold in the US, that's a net loss for our economy. If GM opens a plant in the US and hires Pedro, there's a better chance of the money staying here, where you want it. Ideally, you want Pedro to build cars here for export. That yields a net gain for our economy.

Unless we learn to be competitive, we may become a third world country within the next ten or so years for one simple reason: China. China has decided they want to be a player and they have the means to do so. They have a billion people, that's more than the US and Europe combined. And since they have communism on their side, the government can concentrate education on whom they choose and make the rest work in factories for next to nothing. They could crush entire markets on a whim. THAT is crazy.

[BigMacFU]

Good points Chuck. But, I can't agree on your GM bash. Of American cars, they're probably the most dependable. The Chrysler corporation puts out crap, with the exception of Dodge Trucks (the best darn trucks out there), Ford stands for Found on Road Dead, and well, that's all the American car companies. Yeah, i'm changing directions of this to a Ford and Chrysler bashing thread

[SuperChuck]

Good points Chuck. But, I can't agree on your GM bash. Of American cars, they're probably the most dependable. The Chrysler corporation puts out crap, with the exception of Dodge Trucks (the best darn trucks out there), Ford stands for Found on Road Dead, and well, that's all the American car companies. Yeah, i'm changing directions of this to a Ford and Chrysler bashing thread

Hehe, I just bought my second GM car (Saturn Ion Redline). They are wicked reliable. I had my old Saturn for 8 years with almost NO problems. My gf bought her Saturn because my old one was so reliable. Now I find out my dad's buying a Vue (and you'd be glad, he's getting rid of his Sebring). But the build quality on most of the GMs is a little suspect. My Redline's a headturner, but the interior build quality has a lot to be desired. You could fit a cat between the dash panels. :)

[SmokinDVM]

Because the rest of the world is 3rd world? Europe, Asia, and the Middle East are absolutely kicking our asses because they are highly competitive regions.
The United States is currently imports more product than it exports. That's a recipe for economic collapse. It has nothing to do with illegal workers coming into the country and taking over our crappy jobs, it's because more competitive foreign companies are offering better products at competitive prices.

The rest of the World isn't 3rd World, but the places that US companies have moved their factories to are. And, it's the reason we import more than we export now. It's because the big companies can pay some 8yr old $2/day to make their product, and get tax breaks in the US for doing it. And yes, it is a recipe for collapse. The problem is the government supports the continued raping of Americans in this "I'm rich as shit so fuck the rest of you" style. And it DOES have something to do with illegals coming here and taking over those "crappy" construction, agricultural, and manufacturing jobs, those same jobs that used to provide Americans with reasonable living. And, it's not about more competitive foriegn companies because they produce a better product, it's because they pay their workers $300/year to be their slaves, and we condone that treatment by buying their shit. So what we're really doing is rewarding companies that move out of the US, and foriegn companies, for destroying our middle class in America. But that's OK as long as the corporate pigs, and fat ass politicians, can continue to get richer. Do you realize that the disparity in wages between the average worker in the US and the CEO's in their companies has widened by HUGE margins over the last 15-20 years. It used to be an average of about 10:1, and now is over 300:1. The Middle Class in this Country is what keeps us from being a 3rd World Country. When you ship jobs overseas, and allow millions of illegals to drive down wages for the remaining jobs here, you only speed the collapse of this Country. Ideally you want John Smith building things here for export, and making a reasonable wage at the same time, not illegal Pedro.
Like I said before, FAIR trade, not free trade. We are still the biggest consumers in the World. Companies won't quit selling here just because we charge them if they don't meet certain labor standards, they can't afford to.
As far as China, they won't be able to support their agricultural needs due to their aggressive move away from that and towards manufacturing. They will never even be as successful as the Japanese.