National Guard-Which Border?

[ggiese]

Probably not Pedro, but Pedro Jr. will.
BTW, when exactly was legal immigration "wide open"? IIRC, there has always been some regulation of immigrants. Granted, there were times when regulations were much more lax, but never non-existant.

The Japanese auto industry is a poor example. First, they pay their workers shitty wages to work long hours and be satisfied living in an apartment, that they buy like a condo, with 10 other members of their family, and the apartment costs them so much money that they make payments through several generations of their family.
Second, they introduce low quality cars at low prices only to jack up the cost later. Those shitty Japanese cars now cost as much, if not more than, American cars. They tricked stupid Americans into buying a throw away car because it's not reasonable to fix them. People used to be able to buy a car, and keep it for 20+ years. Now they have to buy a new one every 2-4 years.

The main question people have to ask themselves is this; Do we want to be LIKE other Countries, or BETTER than other Countries? I know what my answer is.

I just bought my first Japanese car, after spending my life tuned to the voices in my head from being a child and hearing that the Japanese were stealing jobs from the US workers. My father owned a Datsun B210 way back, and it was a pile of crap... But my Infiniti (aka Nissan, aka Datsun) is another story - that car is an incredibly well built car. And they have now a history of reliablity which cannot be matched by American cars. I'm sorry I'd not looked at them before.

This country has an arrogance problem. We are by far damn near the richest per capita country in the world (compare our size to the other richer countries and WE ARE the richest per capita country in the world by size). Go to just about any other country in the world and the difference is stark (i.e. - visit Mexico, or Jamaica some time...)

Our youth think it's beneath them to shine shoes, or wait tables, or cut grass, or meat pack... Sorry, but it's true. And it's a societal problem. My son is equally affected as the others - he works, but he could work harder and chooses not to. There's no reason to, in his mind - he has what he wants - and plenty of it. If not, he takes a job to make the necessary money, and then quickly loses interest in working. My 23 yr old daughter feels the government owes her something - she doesn't want to work for $8-10 an hour and lose her benefits... Pathetic...

My grandmother, an immigrant from Italy, came here LEGALLY at age 16, not knowing the language (but she worked hard to learn it in order to communicate). She took whatever work she could get (the best was working in the kitchen at a Chinese restaurant). But - she was motivated to do better than just working in a kitchen - she worked hard for every penny she earned. And died a wealthy woman. She was scrubbing floors in a nursing home weeks before her death because she felt she should, not because she needed to.

Hey - if you want to make $3/hour - more power to you. There are plenty of those jobs out there. That's why the Mexican's are flooding over the border - because there are NOT $3.00/hr. jobs in Mexico. That is theoretically supposed to be the end result of NAFTA.

My grandmother motivated me be saying, "the world needs ditch diggers". And I tell my kids "Mediocre is easy. You don't have to do much to be mediocre". Someday, maybe, it may sink in...

[ggiese]

Just found this..

[SmokinDVM]

My Great Grandparents came from Germany and Ireland. My Grandpa worked in the coal mines in Southern Missouri when he was 8. He was heavily involved in organizing labor in the US, and risked his life on many occassion to improve things in this Country for everyone. I saw the scar on the back of his neck, where the bullet, fired by the Police who were on the "company" payroll, was removed.
It makes me sick when people talk so cavalierly about going back to the times that big companies payed shit to people who worked for them for 30yrs, if they lived that long, only to die in the street because they didn't make enough money to save any.

Why don't you ask your Grandparents, or whichever relative it was that emmigrated to the US, exactly what the times were like. Ask them how many people they knew that didn't "make" it. Find out how many people got sick and lost that job they worked at for 15hrs a day, and just disappeared after.

Your ancestors wanted better for you, don't you want better for your children?

We have a lot of problems in this Country. Illegal immigration isn't the worst, but it exacerbates all the others.


That sign is funny, but my wife is legal and still makes a tasty burrito.

[FlowerBasketExpress2005]

Somewhat similar events happened around the 1880s with illegal Chinese immigrants. They forged papers to come over here, but without them our railroad system might have never been built.

http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/chinex.htm
http://sun.menloschool.org/~mbrody/u...exclusion_act/
http://library.thinkquest.org/20619/Chinese.html

[ggiese]

My Great Grandparents came from Germany and Ireland. My Grandpa worked in the coal mines in Southern Missouri when he was 8. He was heavily involved in organizing labor in the US, and risked his life on many occassion to improve things in this Country for everyone. I saw the scar on the back of his neck, where the bullet, fired by the Police who were on the "company" payroll, was removed.
It makes me sick when people talk so cavalierly about going back to the times that big companies payed shit to people who worked for them for 30yrs, if they lived that long, only to die in the street because they didn't make enough money to save any.

Why don't you ask your Grandparents, or whichever relative it was that emmigrated to the US, exactly what the times were like. Ask them how many people they knew that didn't "make" it. Find out how many people got sick and lost that job they worked at for 15hrs a day, and just disappeared after.

Your ancestors wanted better for you, don't you want better for your children?

We have a lot of problems in this Country. Illegal immigration isn't the worst, but it exacerbates all the others.


That sign is funny, but my wife is legal and still makes a tasty burrito.

...and this is just what kills me about this generation. Our great grandparents and grandparents - and even my parents worked their asses off to grab a piece of the pie. I've worked hard all of my life to grab mine - although I have to admit, I didn't work at heavy construction jobs most of my life like my father did.

And then comes the current generation. It's beneath them to work cutting grass, washing dishes, busing tables, working in a car wash - in general, getting their hands dirty... Why? Because that's what "losers" do. Yet - if I had to provide for my family I'd swim across a river and sneak into a place that would allow me to make a living doing anything if I couldn't provide for my family near my home. That's just what you do for your family, right?

When I was growing up, it was not a bad thing to work in a restaurant - or mow lawns - or clean horse stables. It was a way of making money - I don't care how much it paid, it paid cash... And now those jobs aren't good enough for our youth???

In my view - our kids are lazy because we've provided so well for them. They feel they don't have to work hard because it's there... WTF is wrong with this picture???

[Shagaroo]

When I was growing up, it was not a bad thing to work in a restaurant - or mow lawns - or clean horse stables. It was a way of making money - I don't care how much it paid, it paid cash... And now those jobs aren't good enough for our youth???

When I was 18, summer time before going off to school, I worked for a moving company. I was the grunt doing the hardest work because I was new. Sitting with the gear shift up my ass because I wasn't good enough for a seat in the cab, 16 hour days. I made $7.50/hr starting and was up to $8.50/hr after a month probabtion period. If I wasn't going off to school I could have been up to $9.50/hr after 6 months. Today, same company, all the grunt crews are illegals, $3.50/hr off the books and that's all the time, not for a probationary month. The drivers are legals or Americans and that's it. It's not that people think they are too good for a job, it's they can't live off what they will get paid because illegals work for nothing and live 20 to a house and do nothing but drink in the yard or work. There is no logical argument that makes it ok.

[cigar no baka]

When I was 18, summer time before going off to school, I worked for a moving company. I was the grunt doing the hardest work because I was new. Sitting with the gear shift up my ass because I wasn't good enough for a seat in the cab, 16 hour days. I made $7.50/hr starting and was up to $8.50/hr after a month probabtion period. If I wasn't going off to school I could have been up to $9.50/hr after 6 months. Today, same company, all the grunt crews are illegals, $3.50/hr off the books and that's all the time, not for a probationary month. The drivers are legals or Americans and that's it. It's not that people think they are too good for a job, it's they can't live off what they will get paid because illegals work for nothing and live 20 to a house and do nothing but drink in the yard or work. There is no logical argument that makes it ok.

I'm with you guys. I just graduated from college in 1988, but along the way, I had a paper route, mowed a shitload of lawns, sacked groceries and worked for UPS unloading trucks during the graveyard shift, which was backbreaking work. I just cant fucking believe that kids today won't take jobs like this and put some hard work into their lives. Seems to me that illegals do most of the work I did as a kid less than 20 years ago.

[ggiese]

When I was 18, summer time before going off to school, I worked for a moving company. I was the grunt doing the hardest work because I was new. Sitting with the gear shift up my ass because I wasn't good enough for a seat in the cab, 16 hour days. I made $7.50/hr starting and was up to $8.50/hr after a month probabtion period. If I wasn't going off to school I could have been up to $9.50/hr after 6 months. Today, same company, all the grunt crews are illegals, $3.50/hr off the books and that's all the time, not for a probationary month. The drivers are legals or Americans and that's it. It's not that people think they are too good for a job, it's they can't live off what they will get paid because illegals work for nothing and live 20 to a house and do nothing but drink in the yard or work. There is no logical argument that makes it ok.

My 15 yr. old son complains about needed money. I give my kid my old lawnmower, which (after being fixed up by me so he could use it) worked perfectly well. He looks at me like I'm crazy and says, "never mind..." He could have easily charged $20-30 per lawn in my neighborhood and cut 5 - 6 lawns within a few blocks of my house each week. $100-180 per week for about 10-12 hours does not equate to $3.50/hr. While he couldn't necessarily live on that wage, he certainly could have used the money. But he'd rather sit watching TV... And he's not the only one I see like that...

When I first moved into my neighborhood about 20 yrs ago or so I used to have kids (multiple) at my door weekly asking if I wanted them to cut my lawn. It's now been at least 10 years since I've had one stop by... And I've NEVER had anyone stop by asking to shovel my driveway after a snow storm - I'd GLADLY pay them $30.00 to do that, for an hours worth of work...

Nope - in my experience (limited as it is), todays youth expects to make the big bucks without the necessary sweat...

[Shagaroo]

My 15 yr. old son complains about needed money. I give my kid my old lawnmower, which (after being fixed up by me so he could use it) worked perfectly well. He looks at me like I'm crazy and says, "never mind..." He could have easily charged $20-30 per lawn in my neighborhood and cut 5 - 6 lawns within a few blocks of my house each week. $100-180 per week for about 10-12 hours does not equate to $3.50/hr. While he couldn't necessarily live on that wage, he certainly could have used the money. But he'd rather sit watching TV... And he's not the only one I see like that...

When I first moved into my neighborhood about 20 yrs ago or so I used to have kids (multiple) at my door weekly asking if I wanted them to cut my lawn. It's now been at least 10 years since I've had one stop by... And I've NEVER had anyone stop by asking to shovel my driveway after a snow storm - I'd GLADLY pay them $30.00 to do that, for an hours worth of work...

Nope - in my experience (limited as it is), todays youth expects to make the big bucks without the necessary sweat...

Geez... My kid is 10 and he already works for his cash. I don't mean making up his bed and stuff either. Yard work and stuff at our house and my parents house. Him and his buddy are already trying to figure out a job they can do to start saving up for Space Camp in 3 years. And I had teenagers in a bid war to cut my yard before I got my riding mower a couple years ago. I'm not use to kids not understanding work.