Quote Originally Posted by SmokinDVM
Actually, I never said our previous policies concerning the Middle East weren't fucked up, because they were. The big problem is, dumbya's cowboy attitude has made an already bad situation worse. War, and occupation, should NEVER be your first line of action.
Taking out the Taliban was justified. Too bad dumbya decided not to finish the job before going to Iraq, which was his original target all along. Hell, Iraq was a stabilizing force in the Middle East, no matter what you think of Saddam. It was extremely secular, compared to other countries in the region, even those we outwardly support. They did NOT harbor terrorists, WMD's, or anything else that was a threat to us. We effectively handed power to the Iranians, who have no qualms about actively supporting terrorists.

So, maybe we should have taken a lesson from the radical muslims? How about putting some money into Lebanon, an already rare democratic country in the region? Why not build a community center, school, or hospital? You can't force democracy on anyone, they have to want it. By always having military action as the first response to everything in the Middle East, we only fuel many more generations of terrorists. Did you know that we GIVE, not loan, $4billion to Isreal every year, but Lebanon, a one year old fledgling democracy, we gave a total of $40million? Don't you think it would be money better spent to foster democracy in a country that wants it, rather than try to force it on one that doesn't? Now, they are leaning away from democracy again. Dumbya didn't create the bad situation in the Middle East, he made it WORSE.

Look, if the people in these countries think the radical groups are the only ones who give a shit about them, they'll welcome them. If they want them, let them have them. Them and their 72 virgins.

I can't believe you actually brought out the "we have to fight them over there, so we don't have to fight them here" line. We're creating more terrorists every day, than we have the ability to kill off. We're fueling the problem right now, not helping it.
The definition of insanity is; repeating something over and over, getting the same result, and always expecting a different one.

Do I think the Democrats have a better plan and direction for the U.S.? Overall, yes. Is it without its problems? No, but it's better than the simpleton approach being allowed to happen now. BTW, why exactly does a diplomatic and humanitarian approach to the problem require breaking ties with Isreal? And why should we really care? If Isreal can't see the benefit in helping people, not jews, not muslims, not christians, but people, then Fuck 'em. Let's stop the insanity now. And, if not now, when?

Hey, I know what we should do. Let's all build bunkers so we can be safe from all the boogeymen.


Remember what I said about what's NOT in the news? The story broke a while back that Saddam did in fact have weapons of mass death. You can say that they were old, but it still would have killed people, and they were weapons that Saddam was bound by treaty to get rid of. He denied ever having them. About the same time many high ranking officials in his regime were coming out saying that he had WMD's that have been hidden in Syria, and he was in fact developing nuclear capability. There was a huge flurry of retorts by the dems which quickly subsided and the story "went away." But have you noticed that the "Bush lied" line is no longer being used by them? There were also documents found in Zarquawi's safe house that linked saddam to Al Queda, but, again, that story has been ignored by the news media. I can only surmise that they now realize that Bush didn't lie, but they aren't talking about it. Think about it. I am convinced that Iraq had WMD and we will find out where they went eventually.

The middle east has been teaching hatred of America for many, many years. Even our so called allies have been doing it. It's in their school systems and their culture. Are we breeding terrorists? I don't think so. I think perhaps they are coming of age and the war is bringing them out, but I don't think they are converting because we are there. It's been in their culture for years and diplomatic efforts by past administrations failed to discourage it. Terrorist strikes against the US would have happened eventually. 9/11 would have only been the beginning. There have been several major plans to attack us on our own soil that have been thwarted because of our improved ability to gather intelligence, which was definately lacking pre 9/11. The plan to destroy the WTC had been in the making for 2 years or more, long before Bush took office.

I also believe that the war was necessary. At the time Saddam was defying all of the nations of the world, and the UN (another questionable organization) was united in their opinion that he had to put up or shut up. Instead he continued his course and thumbed his nose at the world. At the time of our entry into Iraq, the majority of politicians in this and other countries, including Kerry and Hillary, gave authority to the President to take military action. Then the election came up and they all backpeddled. Hell, Kerry was being laughed at throughout the election with his famous vote for it, then against it. I was there, we all were, but it seems some of us don't remember.

What, exactly, is the plan that the Democrats have? I have yet to hear it, and maybe if I do I can change my mind. Diplomacy? We tried diplomacy for years only to find that terrorist cells were being formed all over the world with the intent of attacking us. Isreal tried the diplomatic route with Lebanon for the past 7 years. In the mean time, the Hezbollah's armed themselves to the teeth and aimed their missiles at Isreal. Then they entered the country, shot up a number of Isreali villages and took 2 soldiers hostage. The Isreali's felt justified in retaliating because of the direct threat on their northern border, and the fact that they were attacked while they were in the middle of diplomatic talks with Lebanon. Now that Hezbollah is getting their ass kicked, Syria and the Hezbolla's are pushing for a cease fire. Isreal isn't going to let that happen and allow Hezbollah to regroup and rearm.

I would love to see the world at peace, but the reality is that it isn't. Until the day comes where we can talk with other cultures on a level field (and that means that tey have to be willing to see our side, too) there will be conflicts, and there will be times when force, as distasteful as it is, will be unavoidable.